A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Any Satellite Users here ?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 14th 03, 12:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Simon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?
Thanks all
Simon

  #2  
Old July 14th 03, 02:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alex Mann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

Simon wrote:

Chris wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:19:59 +0100, Simon wrote:

Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?
Thanks all
Simon


have a look at http://www.aramiska.net/

quite a few counties are being supported by a funded DTI scheme which
could give you a 12 month free trial and supply of all hardware.

We got this for both of our companies sites in NE Lincs c/o Yorkshire
Forward and Business Insight. This free trial is due to expire in 2
months though for us.

Typical download speeds for the 512k service are at max 110k/sec.

we're looking at VPN also but from what i understand the aramiska
service at the end of the 12 month trial would be approx 200ukp/month.
for the little use our connection gets it would be cheaper for us to go
with ntl's broadband package for 100ukp/month if they would take on new
customers!


Thanks Chris,

I was looking at this outfit anyway as they say they support VPN access,
BT's don't. What sort of ping time do you get to say yahoo.com ?
Thanks again
Simon




Ping on satelite is awful. 1000ms is fairly normal I think, the data has
to travel huge distances which is why the latency is so high...
  #3  
Old July 14th 03, 02:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew Haylett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

Simon wrote:
Chris wrote:


On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:19:59 +0100, Simon wrote:

Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?
Thanks all
Simon


have a look at http://www.aramiska.net/

quite a few counties are being supported by a funded DTI scheme which
could give you a 12 month free trial and supply of all hardware.

We got this for both of our companies sites in NE Lincs c/o Yorkshire
Forward and Business Insight. This free trial is due to expire in 2
months though for us.

Typical download speeds for the 512k service are at max 110k/sec.

we're looking at VPN also but from what i understand the aramiska
service at the end of the 12 month trial would be approx 200ukp/month.
for the little use our connection gets it would be cheaper for us to go
with ntl's broadband package for 100ukp/month if they would take on new
customers!


Thanks Chris,


I was looking at this outfit anyway as they say they support VPN access,
BT's don't. What sort of ping time do you get to say yahoo.com ?
Thanks again
Simon


We have been using Aramiska for the last year or so. Their service has
gradually been getting better as they upgrade equipment. We typically
get 500 kbps streaming rate on the 1 Mbps service during working hours
(I do an automatic test transfer every hour), peaking at 800-900 kbps
outside working hours. Ping time:

$ ping www.yahoo.com
PING www.yahoo.akadns.net (216.109.125.74) from 192.168.0.246 : 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=0 ttl=47 time=932.444 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=1 ttl=47 time=934.938 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=2 ttl=47 time=741.988 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=3 ttl=47 time=708.099 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=4 ttl=47 time=705.444 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=5 ttl=47 time=810.638 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=6 ttl=47 time=708.965 msec
64 bytes from w1.www.dcn.yahoo.com (216.109.125.74): icmp_seq=7 ttl=47 time=678.667 msec

We use VPN quite a bit - it's fine for email and intranet browsing, a
bit slow for telnet as you'd expect. Fiddling with MTU and window size
can improve streaming VPN performance. I think I can get about 110
kbps over my home NTL 150k cable connection via VPN to work. Aramiska
support port forwarding for both PPTP and IPSEC. They also support SMTP
port forwarding for outgoing mail to be redirected to your internal
server. They have HTTP cacheing both on the access box on the customer
site and elsewhere in their network.

If we could get cable or ADSL, I would almost certainly go for that
instead - based on monthly cost and responsiveness of web surfing - but
we don't currently have the option.

Andrew.
  #4  
Old July 14th 03, 09:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,000
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

Simon wrote:

Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?



If its geostationary and two way, the total round trip time is 4 times
the orbit radius - about 24000 miles from memory?

Which is nigh on 100,000 miles in total - somewhat over 500ms. Add a bit
more in for queueing and latency, and your perceived response to
keypress is getting on for a second or so.

If you use a modem type backlink, its a bit better.

Its OK for web access and e-mail, but it's totally useless for

- terminal sessions (telnet)
- online games
- remote file transfer of a type where the packet sizes are small (spend
all yer time waiting for acks).

I would NOT use it in a VPN scenario where you are e.g. connecting to
LAN services that cannot cope with the latency. I suspect it will be an
expensive mistake



Thanks all
Simon




  #5  
Old July 15th 03, 08:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Simon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

Chris wrote:

Thanks Chris,

I was looking at this outfit anyway as they say they support VPN access,
BT's don't. What sort of ping time do you get to say yahoo.com ?
Thanks again
Simon


heres a ping through to yahoo & also one to the newsgroup provider
giganews.

Pinging yahoo.com [66.218.71.198] with 32 bytes of data

Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=881ms TTL=237
Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=891ms TTL=237
Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=862ms TTL=237
Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=1232ms TTL=237

Ping statistics for 66.218.71.198:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss)
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 862ms, Maximum = 1232ms, Average = 966m

Pinging www.giganews.com [216.166.62.81] with 32 bytes of data

Reply from 216.166.62.81: bytes=32 time=691ms TTL=236
Reply from 216.166.62.81: bytes=32 time=841ms TTL=236
Reply from 216.166.62.81: bytes=32 time=981ms TTL=236
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 216.166.62.81:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss)
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 691ms, Maximum = 981ms, Average = 628ms


Thanks very much guys for the replies, much appreciated.

Simon


  #6  
Old July 15th 03, 10:34 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew Haylett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Simon wrote:


Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?


If its geostationary and two way, the total round trip time is 4 times
the orbit radius - about 24000 miles from memory?


Which is nigh on 100,000 miles in total - somewhat over 500ms. Add a bit
more in for queueing and latency, and your perceived response to
keypress is getting on for a second or so.


If you use a modem type backlink, its a bit better.


Its OK for web access and e-mail, but it's totally useless for


- terminal sessions (telnet)


Not useless, just slow.

- online games


Wouldn't know. ;-)

- remote file transfer of a type where the packet sizes are small (spend
all yer time waiting for acks).


We haven't had any trouble with http or ftp streaming. The common
approach to mitigating the effect of long round trip times (which are
not necessarily limited to satellite connections) is to have a larger
window during which packets may be received without ACKs being sent. The
size of the packets then becomes of little significance as long as the
window is the right size.

I would NOT use it in a VPN scenario where you are e.g. connecting to
LAN services that cannot cope with the latency. I suspect it will be an
expensive mistake


We use it with VPN fine - email, web, ftp. Expensive, yes, but not a
mistake. ;-)

Andrew.
  #7  
Old July 15th 03, 12:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,000
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

Andrew Haylett wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Simon wrote:


Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?


If its geostationary and two way, the total round trip time is 4 times
the orbit radius - about 24000 miles from memory?


Which is nigh on 100,000 miles in total - somewhat over 500ms. Add a bit
more in for queueing and latency, and your perceived response to
keypress is getting on for a second or so.


If you use a modem type backlink, its a bit better.


Its OK for web access and e-mail, but it's totally useless for


- terminal sessions (telnet)


Not useless, just slow.


- online games


Wouldn't know. ;-)


- remote file transfer of a type where the packet sizes are small (spend
all yer time waiting for acks).


We haven't had any trouble with http or ftp streaming. The common
approach to mitigating the effect of long round trip times (which are
not necessarily limited to satellite connections) is to have a larger
window during which packets may be received without ACKs being sent. The
size of the packets then becomes of little significance as long as the
window is the right size.


I would NOT use it in a VPN scenario where you are e.g. connecting to
LAN services that cannot cope with the latency. I suspect it will be an
expensive mistake


We use it with VPN fine - email, web, ftp. Expensive, yes, but not a
mistake. ;-)



I was thinking more of remotely mounting the office file systems. Not
sure how SMB copes with big delayes.

I agree FTP, http, e-mail will all be fine.

I disagree that TELNET is useable in any practical way if what you type
takes a second to appear.




Andrew.



  #8  
Old July 15th 03, 02:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andrew Haylett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

We use it with VPN fine - email, web, ftp. Expensive, yes, but not a
mistake. ;-)


I was thinking more of remotely mounting the office file systems. Not
sure how SMB copes with big delayes.


SMB isn't very good over remote slowish connections anyway. For
example, it starts squirrelling stuff over the net even if you just
click on (select, not open) a file in a folder. My solution is to
provide a comprehensive web-based interface to our workgroups intranet
to allow upload, download, auto-compression of entire directories, etc.
It has plenty of useful side-effects, including avoiding the problem
of (workgroup) browsing not working properly over remote connections
anyway.

I disagree that TELNET is useable in any practical way if what you type
takes a second to appear.


One has to develop a certain technique (mental buffering?) and fairly
accurate typing, but I certainly find it useable if sub-optimal (even
with vi!). VPN over ISDN (our backup solution) is certainly much more
responsive...

Andrew.
  #9  
Old July 15th 03, 08:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Gibbons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Any Satellite Users here ?

"Simon" wrote in message
...
Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?
Thanks all
Simon


Just thought I'd add:

Pinging yahoo.com [66.218.71.198] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=310ms TTL=235
Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=331ms TTL=235
Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=330ms TTL=235
Reply from 66.218.71.198: bytes=32 time=311ms TTL=235

Ping statistics for 66.218.71.198:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 310ms, Maximum = 331ms, Average = 320ms

And thats with a standard 56k dialup. Think I know which I'd prefer between
the two.
The lag on satellite is totally inadequate for anything BUT web and email,
making it pretty useless for myself ;p

Regards,
Ian


  #10  
Old July 18th 03, 02:27 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Dave Catchpole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Any Satellite Users here ?


"Simon" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:19:59 +0100, Simon wrote:

Hi There,

I'm looking into sat broadband access for a colleague. Does anyone have
any experience of the performance of the 2 way systems. I'm interested
in the latency as this will be used for VPN access. What is the typical
ping time of somewhere like www.yahoo.com ?
Thanks all
Simon


have a look at http://www.aramiska.net/

quite a few counties are being supported by a funded DTI scheme which
could give you a 12 month free trial and supply of all hardware.

We got this for both of our companies sites in NE Lincs c/o Yorkshire
Forward and Business Insight. This free trial is due to expire in 2
months though for us.

Typical download speeds for the 512k service are at max 110k/sec.

we're looking at VPN also but from what i understand the aramiska
service at the end of the 12 month trial would be approx 200ukp/month.
for the little use our connection gets it would be cheaper for us to go
with ntl's broadband package for 100ukp/month if they would take on new
customers!


Thanks Chris,

I was looking at this outfit anyway as they say they support VPN access,
BT's don't. What sort of ping time do you get to say yahoo.com ?
Thanks again
Simon



Word of advice about Arimiska, don't believe what they claim..

My company needed a solution to get our webserver online, Arimiska were
suggested, and when we contacted them, they said it wouldn't have been a
problem, however, after the dish and router/firewall was installed, when we
tried to get the Domain resolved to the routers IP address, they turned
round
and said they don't do it, and left us up sh1t creek..

Needless to say the system was removed after a month as we had no use for
it.

Be careful...

Dave


 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FAO Freedom2Surf Users Freedom2Support.net uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 2 July 5th 03 10:29 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2017 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.