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Router Latency When Using P2P



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 4th 03, 05:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

I'm interested in using a voice-over-IP service, but have noticed that the
latency on my router increases to about 600 ms when my connection is max-ing
out under p2p traffic. It shouldn't do: I've only got a 512 connection, but
the router is specified up to 8 Mbits/s. A 600 ms latency would make VoIP
call unbearable!

Is this a specific problem to my router, which has a Connexant chipset, or
is this common to all low-end routers?

Thanks,


Richard


  #2  
Old August 4th 03, 05:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

"Harry Broomhall" wrote

What on earth makes you think "It shouldn't do"? If you are maxing
out a connection then any attempt at getting performance out of a line
will not happen!


Perhaps I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that bandwidth and latency are
different things. Just because the pipe is full doesn't mean that data
should take longer to get into the pipe.

Yes, on the uplink, the router needs to make a decision about which packets
to drop, but why should that decision take a whopping 600 ms?

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "maxing". This effect occurs even
when the connection is far from full. It's such a problem with KaZaA that I
don't use that app any more.

If my router was only specified for 512/256 connections, then that might
imply that it was designed for less heavy users than myself and its
performance not being as good as other routers. But it isn't, so I'm still
confused...


Richard


  #3  
Old August 4th 03, 06:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Clueless
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Posts: 49
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

Richard Sacks wrote:
"Harry Broomhall" wrote

What on earth makes you think "It shouldn't do"? If you are
maxing out a connection then any attempt at getting performance out
of a line will not happen!


Perhaps I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that bandwidth and
latency are different things. Just because the pipe is full doesn't
mean that data should take longer to get into the pipe.

Yes, on the uplink, the router needs to make a decision about which
packets to drop, but why should that decision take a whopping 600 ms?

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "maxing". This effect occurs
even when the connection is far from full. It's such a problem with
KaZaA that I don't use that app any more.



This is a budget router you are talking about, what makes you think it can
prioritise traffic? One packet might look just the same as the other to it.
Spend more if you want something capable of deciding what to drop. Look for
one hat supports Layer 3 switching,
http://www.synetrix.co.uk/products/voice_data/index.cfm for an overview.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K28A45C75 for more Google links.

S. Althaf


  #4  
Old August 4th 03, 06:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

"Clueless" wrote

This is a budget router you are talking about, what makes you think it can
prioritise traffic?


I don't!
If I had traffic shaping, then I wouldn't need to post here
This router is so budget that I bet it just dumps every Xth packet. Still,
that requires numbers to be crunched.

One packet might look just the same as the other to it.


Likely so, in this case. Only if the router had some intelligence, such as a
relatively simple weighted round robin scheme, would pay attention to packet
parameters.


Regardless, none of this answers my question! Is this a common problem? Is
600 ms typical?

Thanks, chaps.


Richard


  #5  
Old August 4th 03, 06:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham in Melton
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Posts: 167
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

I think you're missing the point Richard . Think of the router as a bridge
with cars going over it - latency being the transit time of a car over the
bridge, plus the roundabout before it..

All the cars enter the bridge via the roundabout. Once they clear the
roundabout, they pass across the bridge.

If there is a constant flow of traffic across the bridge, such that the
density of traffic is quite low, then the transit time is constantly low.

If however you pump so much traffic onto the roundabout (P2P traffic) that
new traffic joining simply cannot get onto the roundabout, transit times
increase. The time to cross the bridge is constant, but there is a delay at
the roundabout.

You simply cannot exceed the capacity of the bridge, and thatıs what you are
expecting.

As to the 600ms - it could be any number at all, or not at all if the
bridge is full. If I set up an FTP server and access it at full capacity, I
cannot browse the internet at the same time - requests go out but nothing
comes back. The lag is therefore much more than 600ms - virtually infinite
in fact.

Stop downloading porn long enough to make the call imho


On 4/8/03 5:04 pm, in article ,
"Richard Sacks" wrote:

I'm interested in using a voice-over-IP service, but have noticed that the
latency on my router increases to about 600 ms when my connection is max-ing
out under p2p traffic. It shouldn't do: I've only got a 512 connection, but
the router is specified up to 8 Mbits/s. A 600 ms latency would make VoIP
call unbearable!

Is this a specific problem to my router, which has a Connexant chipset, or
is this common to all low-end routers?

Thanks,


Richard



  #6  
Old August 4th 03, 06:55 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Router Latency When Using P2P


"CB" wrote in message
...
I have a conexant based chipset router as well and do not experience
this. *however* I do not upload at all when using P2P applications


Share some files you stingy *******.

K


  #7  
Old August 5th 03, 05:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

"Rev Adrian Kennard" wrote in message
...

The best analogy I have come up with is pooring water in to a funnel.


That is indeed a good analogy. I understand the reasoning now.

Any idea how big typical buffers are, in terms of the maximum latency they
can introduce?


  #8  
Old August 5th 03, 05:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

"CB" wrote

And have the RIAA and it's co-horts onto me? No thankyou very much.
Uploading on my connection is hit and miss anyway, my download rate
slows when I start to upload and the whole connection just goes sloooww.


Are the RIAA taking legal action outside the U.S. then? I thought they only
have a remit for the U.S....


  #9  
Old August 5th 03, 05:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

"Clueless" wrote

Spend more if you want something capable of deciding what to drop. Look

for
one hat supports Layer 3 switching,


Switching, or routing?
Regardless, do you mean (de)prioritising by port number?

But don't the latest versions of p2p apps use random port numbers to avoid
detection/ISP port throttling?


  #10  
Old August 5th 03, 06:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sacks
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Posts: 7
Default Router Latency When Using P2P

"CB" wrote

They do, however, RIAA has brances of its interests all of the Western
World.


They're only regional licensing representatives though.

I take your point tho, better safe than sorry.


 




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