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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 10th 03, 05:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses

When we increased our block of 8 static IP addresses to 16, the base IP
changed which caused us a bit of a problem because we weren't told when it
was going to happen - all of a sudden our external comms went down and we
had to reconfigure firewall, servers, A records etc.

Now we require an additional 5 static IP's, our ISP is saying we can't have
another block of 8 numbers, we have to go to a block of 32 contiguous
numbers - which means our current static IP addresses will be lost again!
Our 'static' IPs are changing more often than our dynamic ones ever did!

My question - is there a technical reason why we can't have two blocks of
static IP addresses?
Our ADSL router is a Zyxel Prestige 600

TIA

Pete


  #3  
Old December 10th 03, 06:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses


"PM" wrote in message
...
When we increased our block of 8 static IP addresses to 16, the base IP
changed which caused us a bit of a problem because we weren't told when it
was going to happen - all of a sudden our external comms went down and we
had to reconfigure firewall, servers, A records etc.

Now we require an additional 5 static IP's, our ISP is saying we can't

have
another block of 8 numbers, we have to go to a block of 32 contiguous
numbers - which means our current static IP addresses will be lost again!
Our 'static' IPs are changing more often than our dynamic ones ever did!

My question - is there a technical reason why we can't have two blocks of
static IP addresses?
Our ADSL router is a Zyxel Prestige 600

TIA

Pete



There should be no reason why they simply can't just change your /29
allocation to a /28 if you have justification for it. Heaven only knows why
they think you need a /27 on an ADSL circuit.

Just out of interest, what do you need all those IP's for anyway?

Chris.



  #4  
Old December 10th 03, 06:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Infant Newbie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses

Can you please tell us why you need all those ip addresses. I am honestly
curious and not trying to flame you.

bart
http://www.meshcode.net

"PM" wrote in message
...
When we increased our block of 8 static IP addresses to 16, the base IP
changed which caused us a bit of a problem because we weren't told when it
was going to happen - all of a sudden our external comms went down and we
had to reconfigure firewall, servers, A records etc.

Now we require an additional 5 static IP's, our ISP is saying we can't

have
another block of 8 numbers, we have to go to a block of 32 contiguous
numbers - which means our current static IP addresses will be lost again!
Our 'static' IPs are changing more often than our dynamic ones ever did!

My question - is there a technical reason why we can't have two blocks of
static IP addresses?
Our ADSL router is a Zyxel Prestige 600

TIA

Pete




  #5  
Old December 10th 03, 07:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Glyn Grinstead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses

On 2003-12-10, PM wrote:
My question - is there a technical reason why we can't have two blocks of
static IP addresses?


No fundamental technical reason, but it's not normally worth the effort
involved for a small block.

At present you have 16 addresses, of which some (probably 3 - network,
broadcast and the routers IP) will be used by your network infrastructure.
If you add another block of 8 then, because they don't join on to the
existing range, you'll lose another three IPs so you'll have 24 IP addresses
of which 6 are taken up by the system - not a particularly good ratio :-)

You'd also have the problem of arranging for the two sections of your
network to talk to each other - as they'll now be on different IP ranges
some machines won't be able to see others directly. Again, this isn't a
major issue and may not even be relevant to you, but it makes things messy
and is usually best avoided where possible.

If you've recently gone from 8 to 16 addresses then your ISP may well feel
that there's no point in giving you another 8 when you'll only be back to
them shortly looking for more - you may as well go to 32 now and get it
over with for a while.

The biggest sticking point you may have is that the ISP needs to route both
blocks of IP down your ADSL line. There's nothing imposible about this in
principle, but you may find that there aren't systems in place to allow this
type of configuration to be entered into their (or BTs) systems. Many ISPs
will be allocating this IP to you and configuring your and their routers in
a standardised way - it's just not worth their while to do a custom
configuration for individual customers until you get to a certain cost
point. Smaller ISPs or business orientated (that is, more expensive) ones
may be a better bet (though that won't overcome BT limitations if there are
any but they may be more imaginative about suggesting other solutions).

I'm not sure if there's a BT limitation that prevents the running of two
address ranges over one BT supplied ADSL line, I suspect there may be but
I'm open to comments.

If you are able to persuade the ISP to route the addresses to you, then you
may find that your router won't allow two separate ranges of public IPs to
be used across it - it may be that it assumes that any additional IP ranges
are for the purposes of NAT. I'm not familiar with your router so I can't
advise whether this will be a problem for you.

Glyn

Hint of the day: If you know in advance that you will be making DNS changes
in the near future and you have full control of the DNS records then lower
the Time To Live value. That way the old values will be removed from DNS
caches more quickly than normal at the expense of more DNS traffic.
Remember to put the timeouts back to normal afterwards.
  #6  
Old December 11th 03, 09:12 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses


"Glyn Grinstead" wrote in message
...
On 2003-12-10, PM wrote:
My question - is there a technical reason why we can't have two blocks

of
static IP addresses?


No fundamental technical reason, but it's not normally worth the effort
involved for a small block.

At present you have 16 addresses, of which some (probably 3 - network,
broadcast and the routers IP) will be used by your network infrastructure.
If you add another block of 8 then, because they don't join on to the
existing range, you'll lose another three IPs so you'll have 24 IP

addresses
of which 6 are taken up by the system - not a particularly good ratio :-)

You'd also have the problem of arranging for the two sections of your
network to talk to each other - as they'll now be on different IP ranges
some machines won't be able to see others directly. Again, this isn't a
major issue and may not even be relevant to you, but it makes things messy
and is usually best avoided where possible.

If you've recently gone from 8 to 16 addresses then your ISP may well feel
that there's no point in giving you another 8 when you'll only be back to
them shortly looking for more - you may as well go to 32 now and get it
over with for a while.

The biggest sticking point you may have is that the ISP needs to route

both
blocks of IP down your ADSL line. There's nothing imposible about this in
principle, but you may find that there aren't systems in place to allow

this
type of configuration to be entered into their (or BTs) systems. Many ISPs
will be allocating this IP to you and configuring your and their routers

in
a standardised way - it's just not worth their while to do a custom
configuration for individual customers until you get to a certain cost
point. Smaller ISPs or business orientated (that is, more expensive) ones
may be a better bet (though that won't overcome BT limitations if there

are
any but they may be more imaginative about suggesting other solutions).

I'm not sure if there's a BT limitation that prevents the running of two
address ranges over one BT supplied ADSL line, I suspect there may be but
I'm open to comments.

If you are able to persuade the ISP to route the addresses to you, then

you
may find that your router won't allow two separate ranges of public IPs to
be used across it - it may be that it assumes that any additional IP

ranges
are for the purposes of NAT. I'm not familiar with your router so I can't
advise whether this will be a problem for you.

Glyn

Hint of the day: If you know in advance that you will be making DNS

changes
in the near future and you have full control of the DNS records then lower
the Time To Live value. That way the old values will be removed from DNS
caches more quickly than normal at the expense of more DNS traffic.
Remember to put the timeouts back to normal afterwards.



Thanks to all that replied. The reason we need more IP addresses is to have
a DMZ so we can VPN to clients' sites - NAT and VPN don't like each other.
We need 5 additional addresses, the network and broadcast would take another
two so we'd have one spare.
There's no fundamental reason why we can't have contiguous addresses, it
just makes the firewall more prone to mistakes; also we really don't want to
have to reconfigure it all, get our A records changed and so on.

Unfortunately we don't configure our router - our ISP does this. I don't
know whether this is the sticking point. Unfortunately neither Tech or Sales
at the ISP could give me an answer :-( and I picked them because their
initial tech support was so good. Praps I'll drop them a mail.

Pete


  #8  
Old December 11th 03, 10:21 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jason Clifford
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default Static IPs and a shopping trolley website

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Peter wrote:

Doesn't running a website on an in-house server need a fixed IP?

I know that in the bast there have been IP translation services around
but it doens't look very good for a business.


You are right - you can run a site from a dynamic IP using one of the
dynamic DNS services. You are also right that it often looks
unprofessional.

If you want to host such a site on the end of a broadband connection a
static IP is a must.

That said if you are expecting the site to get at all busy it's generally
better to host it with a professional hosting service.

Jason Clifford
--
JustADSL 1Mb Home ADSL just 31.99 / month
http://www.justadsl.com/ Business ADSL from 30/month

  #10  
Old December 11th 03, 12:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Morgan - 0870 432 9631
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 294
Default Static IPs - adding more changes our addresses

On 11 Dec 2003, "PM" wrote:

Unfortunately we don't configure our router - our ISP does this. I don't
know whether this is the sticking point. Unfortunately neither Tech or Sales
at the ISP could give me an answer :-( and I picked them because their
initial tech support was so good. Praps I'll drop them a mail.


Given you want more, you could just as easily get a second ADSL account
from someone else - then you have a reserve as well. Don't have the ISP
handling the config and you'll probably be better off anyway. I had been
meaning to ask earlier, but now am even more curious - which ISP is it at
the moment ? Thanks. Peter M.
 




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