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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed. |
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#1
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![]() Almost forced to leave Virgin.Net. Please read below and let me know your opinions: Below I report a copy of an email I received 2 weeks ago from Virgin.Net. Yesterday I received the same threat on a paper copy. The letter actually was a bit more lengthy and explicitily threatening about the ridiculous 5GB/Week up/download limit: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Important Announcement regarding your Virgin.net Broadband account - Please Read Dear customer, You may be aware that some Virgin.net Broadband customers are currently experiencing a deterioration in service performance. The most significant reason for this is excessive bandwidth usage, where a minority of customers are constantly uploading and / or downloading really large files and thus clogging up the network. So if you are a heavy user of Virgin.net Broadband, it would really help if you could take it a bit easy. We are requesting that everyone reduces their levels of uploading / or downloading activity to 1 gigabyte a day up to a maximum of 5 gigabytes per week. This will enable us to get the system back up to speed and allow everyone to enjoy the service in full. Otherwise, we may have to take drastic action and restrict usage. We would encourage you to visit the Virgin.net website for our Terms and Conditions regarding broadband usage with particular reference to Clauses F.16 and P.2 whereby Virgin.net reserves the right to temporarily suspend or to terminate accounts. This would obviously be a last resort for us and we hope that we do not have to take such action. If you have any questions on your broadband usage please see our FAQs or feel free to email us at Thank you, Virgin.net" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- My account is a standard 512Kb Download account. THIS MEANS THAT I BOUGHT A 512Kb Download account for a 24/7 service. THIS IS WHAT I BOUGHT! DIDN'T I? Let's say that I am using a software like Kazaa or WinMX or Emule or eDonkey to download Movies,Software,Music. MAYBE I bought the broadband EXACTLY for this purpose. What do you think? With this peer-to-peer I reach easily 10K/s upload and 45k/s Download. Downloading multiple files at the same time allows me to keep this speed almost constantly. With a bit of arithmetics I obtain (10K + 45K) * 86,400 (seconds in a day of 24 hrs) = 4.75 GB. This means that in 24 hours I download/upload almost as much as (ACCORDINGLY TO THESE FUNNY GUYS FROM VIRGIN.NET) I am supposedely allowed to download/upload in ONE WEEK! This means that I will soon be forced to leave Virgin.Net (they explicitily say they will interrupt my account) because I am not using it at 1/6th of it's full potential!!! Maybe these little idiots think that someone buys the broadband only to check his/her email twice a day and download a cople of ring-tones and wallpapers every week. I am speechless. Heavy Downloaders: Beware and go elsewhere. Micael |
#2
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![]() "Micael Doyle" wrote in message om... My account is a standard 512Kb Download account. THIS MEANS THAT I BOUGHT A 512Kb Download account for a 24/7 service. THIS IS WHAT I BOUGHT! DIDN'T I? Actually, you brought a 50:1 contended product not a leased line.. Regards Sunil |
#3
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![]() "Micael Doyle" wrote in message om... snip Let's say that I am using a software like Kazaa or WinMX or Emule or eDonkey to download Movies,Software,Music. Ever heard of the saying "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"? |
#4
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#5
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![]() Peter Morgan - 0870 432 9631 wrote: ... alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp is an interesting newsgroup to have posted to - do you think they'd let you run 24x7 at full pelt ? Indeed, interesting. We do offer an "all you can eat" tariff, Office 500 High, which is currently 70+VAT per month (thats 82.25). The reason it is this price is simple - bandwidth costs money. If you went to a well connected data centre and tried to buy 500Kb/s bandwidth you would easily be paying 50+VAT/month if not more even if no circuit cost at all involved. Go check their AUP/notes and you'd see your type of use would not match up without paying a higher fee than you are currently paying. Good job Virgin only has one month notice needed, and no connection fee. I trust you'll be checking the T+C for any future ISPs you're considering so you don't find yourself on the wrong side of their expectations of you as a customer. Peter M. Always well worth checking. I hope that we manage to make it very clear what exactly people are buying when they look at our service, and I know some ISPs could be clearer. -- _ Rev. Adrian Kennard, Andrews & Arnold Ltd / AAISP (_) _| _ . _ _ 4Mb/s ADSL, fixed IP, no min term http://adsl.ms/ ( )(_|( |(_|| ) SpliceCom VoIP based PABXs http://aa.gg/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bond two ADSL lines? http://www.FireBrick.info/ |
#6
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![]() On 15 Dec 2003 16:15, A Kennard wrote: Indeed, interesting. We do offer an "all you can eat" tariff, Office 500 High, which is currently 70+VAT per month (thats 82.25). The reason it is this price is simple - bandwidth costs money. Yes, I looked at that recently for someone, but didn't have the cost in my head when I posted. Just found it funny to have been cross-posted to a place where it would get an honest rather than "they're rotters at Virgin.net for doing this" response :-) I hope that we manage to make it very clear what exactly people are buying when they look at our service, No doubts or worries on that score Adrian - I've usually found your pages comprehensive and on contention and why 24x7 at 512k isn't an option (unless paid for) you were perfectly clear !! Peter M. |
#7
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![]() Hello, I agree with the sentiment expressed by the previous poster. Fair usage at full bandwidth equivalent might be 8 - 10 to 16-20 hours a day of an on average between 3 - 5 day week (i.e. an on average high-end expectation of 10 gigabytes a week - naturally with a fair assumption that that would be a heavy week where a good proportion of other weeks can be expected to be significantly lighter [i.e. around 50% of that level]). However, as for those arguing the complete opposite end of the scale from the OP (i.e. 1/50th equivalent - i.e. 9600 baud equivalent for 24/7 full bandwidth ADSL, a dial-up connection would clearly be both more economic and outperform) I suggest the following point. To this end, my query relates to the intended eventual use of ADSL lines for delivery of broadcast and on-demand video / tv. I would like to see any prime time viewing experience if when 90% of a neighbourhood have their ADSL serviced TV on, demanding some MPEGAV stream at 9600 baud! That usage scenario shows that the contention ratios are intended as provisos / limit guidelines rather than actually expected use performance. I would appreciate some thought / input / feedback on your views about this type of usage scenario (i.e. high-bandwidth on demand video applications at peak times). Naturally, I imagine that by the time such a service / technology became mainstream the entry-level ADSL bandwidth (or its equivalent) would have reached a good 10/20 to 100/200 mbs (such that having one on-demand video streaming request / requirement serviced would not represent any more than a minimal background bandwidth usage). Best wishes, News Reader -- *************************** IMPORTANT NOTE ************************** The above information is confidential to the addressee and may be privileged. Unauthorised access and use is prohibited. *************************** IMPORTANT NOTE ************************** "Peter Morgan - 0870 432 9631" wrote in message .net... On 15 Dec 2003 16:15, A Kennard wrote: Indeed, interesting. We do offer an "all you can eat" tariff, Office 500 High, which is currently 70+VAT per month (thats 82.25). The reason it is this price is simple - bandwidth costs money. Yes, I looked at that recently for someone, but didn't have the cost in my head when I posted. Just found it funny to have been cross-posted to a place where it would get an honest rather than "they're rotters at Virgin.net for doing this" response :-) I hope that we manage to make it very clear what exactly people are buying when they look at our service, No doubts or worries on that score Adrian - I've usually found your pages comprehensive and on contention and why 24x7 at 512k isn't an option (unless paid for) you were perfectly clear !! Peter M. |
#8
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![]() News Reader wrote: ... I would appreciate some thought / input / feedback on your views about this type of usage scenario (i.e. high-bandwidth on demand video applications at peak times). Naturally, I imagine that by the time such a service / technology became mainstream the entry-level ADSL bandwidth (or its equivalent) would have reached a good 10/20 to 100/200 mbs (such that having one on-demand video streaming request / requirement serviced would not represent any more than a minimal background bandwidth usage). There is a VideoStream service aimed at video on demand, and it works on (I believe) 3 to 1 contention for a circuit at 2.3Mb/s. Basically, internet usage is changing, and theh infrastucture is based on one level whilst some users expectations are based on a different model. I am sure, over time, things will change, but also bandwidths available will also change. You should try sitting on the data centre floor and trying to work out what you can usefully do with a gigabit internet feed to your laptop. -- _ Rev. Adrian Kennard, Andrews & Arnold Ltd / AAISP (_) _| _ . _ _ 4Mb/s ADSL, fixed IP, no min term http://adsl.ms/ ( )(_|( |(_|| ) SpliceCom VoIP based PABXs http://aa.gg/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bond two ADSL lines? http://www.FireBrick.info/ |
#9
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![]() On 15 Dec 2003 07:27:06 -0800, Micael Doyle wrote: Almost forced to leave Virgin.Net. Please read below and let me know your opinions: Below I report a copy of an email I received 2 weeks ago from Virgin.Net. Posting private email? Actually, that email was very polite and reasonable, compared to most ISPs who have put 'caps' on usage. NTL, for instance, didn't announce it at all in any individual fashion (no emails to customers), some others have gone straight to disabling 'heavy usage' accounts. Yesterday I received the same threat on a paper copy. The letter actually was a bit more lengthy and explicitily threatening about the ridiculous 5GB/Week up/download limit: So you didn't modify your behaviour to their request, and then you are upset because they actually sent it to you on paper? My account is a standard 512Kb Download account. THIS MEANS THAT I BOUGHT A 512Kb Download account for a 24/7 service. THIS IS WHAT I BOUGHT! DIDN'T I? No. See what Freeserve did with their "24/7" dialup accounts, for instance. "24/7" means that you have access all the time, not that you can use full capacity all the time. The "Information Superhighway" is a cliche, but in many ways it is accurate. Imagine if everyone used their cars 24/7 ("I pay my road tax so I can use the road all the time if I want!"), the roads couldn't cope. In fact, just like Virgin's ISP, they can't cope even with the current demand... Let's say that I am using a software like Kazaa or WinMX or Emule or eDonkey to download Movies,Software,Music. MAYBE I bought the broadband EXACTLY for this purpose. What do you think? I think you deserve what you get for not reading the terms and conditions. With this peer-to-peer I reach easily 10K/s upload and 45k/s Download. Downloading multiple files at the same time allows me to keep this speed almost constantly. With a bit of arithmetics I obtain (10K + 45K) * 86,400 (seconds in a day of 24 hrs) = 4.75 GB. And what about everyone else? Resources aren't infinite. This means that in 24 hours I download/upload almost as much as (ACCORDINGLY TO THESE FUNNY GUYS FROM VIRGIN.NET) I am supposedely allowed to download/upload in ONE WEEK! Yeah, and you get chucked off for breaking their terms and conditions. Maybe these little idiots think that someone buys the broadband only to check his/her email twice a day and download a cople of ring-tones and wallpapers every week. I am speechless. 5GB a week is a hell of a lot of data, about 7 CDs equivalent. And you are paying how much for it? 25 quid a month? So you are basically paying under a quid per CD full of data, I defy you to find anywhere which would sell you the data for that little. Heavy Downloaders: Beware and go elsewhere. Good luck finding anywhere which doesn't charge you a lot more for that sort of bandwidth. Even if there are places now, there won't be soon, because no provider can afford to do it at that price (bandwidth costs them as well). Chris C |
#10
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![]() On 15 Dec 2003 16:53, "News Reader" wrote: 9600 baud equivalent for 24/7 full bandwidth ADSL, a dial-up connection would clearly be both more economic and outperform It might well outperform, but would be more costly than many current fees for ADSL, to have "always on" service. Current costs for Demon at 64k 24x7 run to around 45 pounds a month (and there's the fact it makes a line engaged, so a second line or Highway is a necessity for voice communication from the same household, thus bumping costs with a minimum of 9.50 a month. I put in the 50:1 as a simple reminder that anyone believing they can run at full speed 24x7 should look again at what they are "buying" before complaint that an ISP has requested heavy users take action to reduce their load. Virgin has set some limits which are probably well in excess of the 1/50th I suggested, because they know many people are "heavy users" for a fraction of the time. It's really only those using peer-to- peer software who are likely to hit any restrictions. As for the likelihood of homes using an internet connection for all their "TV" viewing, I doubt it will ever happen, as existing "one to many" *broadcast* (DTT, satellite) methods are adequate and the "interactive" (cable, satellite, DTT) methods have seen lower use of the interactivity mechanisms (feedback, polls, etc) than many were expecting a few years ago. It's perhaps only the Homechoice VoD service where each household can choose different material to watch that has a high traffic load for video to the home via phone line. Sure, I can watch films from CinemaNow.com but have to accept it is unlikely to ever match the quality of satellite, Freeview or even TV as a PAL signal until 4+ Mbps is guaranteed. Peter M. |
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