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MSN Messenger



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 2nd 04, 08:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default MSN Messenger

I've been playing around with this, this evening. I can text, and swap
files with friends out there in internet land, but no luck with web cam
images or audio. My/their DSL router(s) are probably blocking
the connection, I and they, have tried enabling upnp, but no luck still.

However, I have three PCs connected to my router. Web cam images *do* work
between any three of them via MSN but while text seems to go
via the internet (MS in Seattle ?) the web cam images travel directly over
my LAN, as evidenced by no data through the router into/out of the IP 'cloud'.

How is this happening ?


  #2  
Old February 2nd 04, 09:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham
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Posts: 59
Default MSN Messenger

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 20:37:11 +0000, Mark Carver wrote:

I've been playing around with this, this evening. I can text, and swap
files with friends out there in internet land, but no luck with web cam
images or audio. My/their DSL router(s) are probably blocking
the connection, I and they, have tried enabling upnp, but no luck still.

However, I have three PCs connected to my router. Web cam images *do* work
between any three of them via MSN but while text seems to go
via the internet (MS in Seattle ?) the web cam images travel directly over
my LAN, as evidenced by no data through the router into/out of the IP 'cloud'.

How is this happening ?


MSN's video and audio won't work over NAT routers because the machines on
the internal network don't know the external ip address. I don't know if
anyone has a work round for this. It would also involve some port
forwarding on your router.

graham


  #3  
Old February 2nd 04, 11:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Networkguy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default MSN Messenger

MSN's video and audio won't work over NAT routers because the machines on
the internal network don't know the external ip address. I don't know if
anyone has a work round for this. It would also involve some port
forwarding on your router.


MSN audio and video will work fine over a NAT router as long as it supports
port forwarding or you set up your PC on a DMZ.

Another option is to use UPnP where messenger will open ports on the router
dynamically BUT there are some concerns around the use of UPnP so you might
want to look into this first.


  #4  
Old February 3rd 04, 12:30 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MikeB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default MSN Messenger

"BUT there are some concerns around the use of UPnP "
Well you'd have thought that putting your PC into a DMZ would be more cause
for concern than using UPnP.

MikeB

"Networkguy" wrote in message
...
MSN's video and audio won't work over NAT routers because the machines

on
the internal network don't know the external ip address. I don't know if
anyone has a work round for this. It would also involve some port
forwarding on your router.


MSN audio and video will work fine over a NAT router as long as it

supports
port forwarding or you set up your PC on a DMZ.

Another option is to use UPnP where messenger will open ports on the

router
dynamically BUT there are some concerns around the use of UPnP so you

might
want to look into this first.




  #5  
Old February 3rd 04, 01:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Networkguy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default MSN Messenger

"BUT there are some concerns around the use of UPnP "
Well you'd have thought that putting your PC into a DMZ would be more

cause
for concern than using UPnP.


Yes and no.

If you out your PC in the DMZ, you set up additional security (such as a
firewall) so that you have full control over what ports are open etc etc.

UPnP does the opening and closing on it's own so you may not know if things
are right.

To be honest, I have not seen any successful exploits of UPnP in the "wild"
and don't have a problem using it but I wanted to highlight the fact so that
the OP did not start using it unaware.


  #6  
Old February 3rd 04, 03:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default MSN Messenger

Networkguy wrote:
"BUT there are some concerns around the use of UPnP "
Well you'd have thought that putting your PC into a DMZ would be
more cause for concern than using UPnP.


Yes and no.

If you out your PC in the DMZ, you set up additional security (such
as a firewall) so that you have full control over what ports are open
etc etc.

UPnP does the opening and closing on it's own so you may not know if
things are right.

To be honest, I have not seen any successful exploits of UPnP in the
"wild" and don't have a problem using it but I wanted to highlight
the fact so that the OP did not start using it unaware.


Don't worry, I'm aware of its potential dangers, (though Steve Gibson
does seem to be overly paranoid about it ?). I did notice that it seemed
to be opening ports on my ADSL router (Solwise SAR 715) and they
were remaining open, long after I'd shut MSN messenger down. I've since disabled
it (using S Gibson's tool) on my three PCs.

Since my posting, I did have limited success with two of my friends seeing each
other, ( never any audio). But the results were not consistent, or repeatable.

Not to worry. I was just seeing if I could talk and see my family when I'm thousands
of miles away on business, though punching a hole in my company's corporate network
and its firewall will be even more difficult, if not impossible.

Thanks for all the responses, I'm still intrigued to learn why and how MSN knows
to use my LAN for video comms when I'm going between PCs on my own network,
and why it can't do the same for audio ?
(Be gentle, I'm from an analogue engineering background :-) )



  #7  
Old February 3rd 04, 04:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ant C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default MSN Messenger


"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Networkguy wrote:
"BUT there are some concerns around the use of UPnP "
Well you'd have thought that putting your PC into a DMZ would be
more cause for concern than using UPnP.


Yes and no.

If you out your PC in the DMZ, you set up additional security (such
as a firewall) so that you have full control over what ports are open
etc etc.

UPnP does the opening and closing on it's own so you may not know if
things are right.

To be honest, I have not seen any successful exploits of UPnP in the
"wild" and don't have a problem using it but I wanted to highlight
the fact so that the OP did not start using it unaware.


Don't worry, I'm aware of its potential dangers, (though Steve Gibson
does seem to be overly paranoid about it ?). I did notice that it seemed
to be opening ports on my ADSL router (Solwise SAR 715) and they
were remaining open, long after I'd shut MSN messenger down. I've since

disabled
it (using S Gibson's tool) on my three PCs.

Since my posting, I did have limited success with two of my friends seeing

each
other, ( never any audio). But the results were not consistent, or

repeatable.

Not to worry. I was just seeing if I could talk and see my family when I'm

thousands
of miles away on business, though punching a hole in my company's

corporate network
and its firewall will be even more difficult, if not impossible.

Thanks for all the responses, I'm still intrigued to learn why and how MSN

knows
to use my LAN for video comms when I'm going between PCs on my own

network,
and why it can't do the same for audio ?
(Be gentle, I'm from an analogue engineering background :-) )




FYI: You'll find Yahoo messenger works fine with voice and cam!. (must
obviously use dedicated ports)

Pain in the arse having to switch over to yahoo just for voice or cam, but
at least it works.

I spent ages ****ing around with msn and netmeeting without any success.




  #8  
Old February 3rd 04, 06:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Furniss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default MSN Messenger

Mark Carver wrote:

Since my posting, I did have limited success with two of my friends seeing
each other, ( never any audio). But the results were not consistent, or
repeatable.

Not to worry. I was just seeing if I could talk and see my family when I'm
thousands of miles away on business, though punching a hole in my
company's corporate network and its firewall will be even more difficult,
if not impossible.


Most of the answers are in the help pages accessed by getting help from msn
messenger it's self.

Not that I've tested what I read ages ago, but from memory -

Don't confude MSN messenger with windows messenger.

If both users are using version 6, then it's possible to do audio/video
via MSN server, though it will be limited bandwidth.

To see if your upnp is msn compatable, go to tools-options-connection tab
and msn will tell you what it thinks your set up is - if it doesn't say
upnp you need to think about firmware upgrade if possible.


Thanks for all the responses, I'm still intrigued to learn why and how MSN
knows to use my LAN for video comms when I'm going between PCs on my own
network, and why it can't do the same for audio ?
(Be gentle, I'm from an analogue engineering background :-) )


AIUI msn will embed the PCs IP address in data sent to the central server,
this is why you need upnp for direct connections - it lets a router tell
msn it's real address. In the case of your LAN then if the local addresses
get sent it will work because they are valid for a direct connection on you
lan.

Andy.

  #9  
Old February 4th 04, 01:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default MSN Messenger

Andy Furniss wrote:
To see if your upnp is msn compatable, go to tools-options-connection
tab and msn will tell you what it thinks your set up is - if it
doesn't say upnp you need to think about firmware upgrade if possible.


Even with upnp enabled, MSN still thinks I'm not enabled. Not to worry
now though, see below.


Thanks for all the responses, I'm still intrigued to learn why and
how MSN knows to use my LAN for video comms when I'm going between
PCs on my own network, and why it can't do the same for audio ?
(Be gentle, I'm from an analogue engineering background :-) )


AIUI msn will embed the PCs IP address in data sent to the central
server, this is why you need upnp for direct connections - it lets a
router tell msn it's real address. In the case of your LAN then if
the local addresses get sent it will work because they are valid for
a direct connection on you lan.


Thanks, understood.

Ant C wrote:-
FYI: You'll find Yahoo messenger works fine with voice and cam!.
(must obviously use dedicated ports)


Tried it last night, and you're right, Bingo ! Much better, and easier to
set up.

Thanks again chaps.


 




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