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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Changing cables



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 20th 04, 03:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Changing cables

Does anyone know how to pursuade BT to change the alumninum cable that
goes from the green box around the estate (400m) into other homes before
reaching its last point (my house, which is right next to green box).

This type of cable is causing daily sync problems. Either get connected
and lose it about 80 times a day or having trouble getting connected at all.


Nothing to do with the above. My mate loses his connection when he
starts using either video editting software or TV Capture software. We
have ruled out conflicting hardware. System spec is:

P4 2.4ghz
650watt PSU
512mb ddr Ram
Geforce 4 Graphics
5.1 Sound
Connexant Access Runner ADSL Modem
and the usual stuff: DVD, CDRW, Keyboard, mouse etc...

I seem to think the problem only occurs when the CPU Usage is 100%

Remove NOSPAM to reply

  #2  
Old February 20th 04, 11:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Changing cables

You have no chance at all.
The green box is called a CAB and is fed with
200+pair cable and from that 40 pair cable is fed
in different directions, maybe jointed under ground
down to 4 pair or if fed overhead via drop wires.
They may 'swap' a pair if you are having trouble
but with BT's cable testing they can tell if your
cable is ok. If you are next to the CAB I doubt if
you are the last in the loop
If the cable was faulty you would have problems
with your phone and they would know before you.
Technology has advanced in BT.
I would look at your internal cables
and filters first or your modem, check for updates for
your modem.
I have worked for BT in the past and they
will test if you request, it is done in minutes and
is very accurate within 0.25db


"Nick" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know how to pursuade BT to change the alumninum cable that
goes from the green box around the estate (400m) into other homes before
reaching its last point (my house, which is right next to green box).

This type of cable is causing daily sync problems. Either get connected
and lose it about 80 times a day or having trouble getting connected at

all.


Nothing to do with the above. My mate loses his connection when he
starts using either video editting software or TV Capture software. We
have ruled out conflicting hardware. System spec is:

P4 2.4ghz
650watt PSU
512mb ddr Ram
Geforce 4 Graphics
5.1 Sound
Connexant Access Runner ADSL Modem
and the usual stuff: DVD, CDRW, Keyboard, mouse etc...

I seem to think the problem only occurs when the CPU Usage is 100%

Remove NOSPAM to reply



  #3  
Old February 21st 04, 11:22 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Changing cables

I have already been down this road. BT engineers/Local area planners
have been investigating drop outs on my line during the last 3/4 months.
Their conclusion is: The aluminium cable is the cause. Somewhere along
the line there is a static build up caused by an external source. The
static builds up causing line dropouts. Fact: The engineers were quite
surprised to see I was the last in the loop considering I live right
next to the CAB. BT engineers/Local area planners solution to problem
was to change the type of cable. We know it is not a problem with
anything inside the property, as two engineers have carried tests out
between the box on the outside wall and the CAB, this was how the
arrived at what the problem was

But since their last visit I spoke to BT Wholesale, they have now
decided, after 18 months service that I can't get broadband and that
they have no intention of replacing the cable. There are two other
broadband customers in the loop but they are at the beginning of the
loop and do not have problems with dropouts

Mike wrote:
You have no chance at all.
The green box is called a CAB and is fed with
200+pair cable and from that 40 pair cable is fed
in different directions, maybe jointed under ground
down to 4 pair or if fed overhead via drop wires.
They may 'swap' a pair if you are having trouble
but with BT's cable testing they can tell if your
cable is ok. If you are next to the CAB I doubt if
you are the last in the loop
If the cable was faulty you would have problems
with your phone and they would know before you.
Technology has advanced in BT.
I would look at your internal cables
and filters first or your modem, check for updates for
your modem.
I have worked for BT in the past and they
will test if you request, it is done in minutes and
is very accurate within 0.25db


"Nick" wrote in message
...

Does anyone know how to pursuade BT to change the alumninum cable that
goes from the green box around the estate (400m) into other homes before
reaching its last point (my house, which is right next to green box).

This type of cable is causing daily sync problems. Either get connected
and lose it about 80 times a day or having trouble getting connected at


all.


Nothing to do with the above. My mate loses his connection when he
starts using either video editting software or TV Capture software. We
have ruled out conflicting hardware. System spec is:

P4 2.4ghz
650watt PSU
512mb ddr Ram
Geforce 4 Graphics
5.1 Sound
Connexant Access Runner ADSL Modem
and the usual stuff: DVD, CDRW, Keyboard, mouse etc...

I seem to think the problem only occurs when the CPU Usage is 100%

Remove NOSPAM to reply





  #4  
Old February 21st 04, 01:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Danny Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Changing cables

Nick wrote:

"there is a static build up caused by an external source".
ROFL!

Mike Wrote:
"The green box is called a CAB and is fed with 200+pair cable and from that
40 pair cable is fed in different directions"

!

"I have worked for BT in the past"
Really for how many hours........
  #5  
Old February 21st 04, 07:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Changing cables



Danny Richards wrote:
Nick wrote:

"there is a static build up caused by an external source".
ROFL!


What's wrong with the above, I've quoted what was in a letter from BT,
and apart from the fact that i'm joe public i'm not a telecoms engineer
or claim to be anything to do with telecoms. With that said i don't see
the humor, so if you wish to joke about something i posted, you could at
least have the courtesy/manners to explain yourself


Mike Wrote:
"The green box is called a CAB and is fed with 200+pair cable and from that
40 pair cable is fed in different directions"

!

"I have worked for BT in the past"
Really for how many hours........


  #6  
Old February 21st 04, 08:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Burton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Changing cables

I've got no knowledge of this technical stuff; but would caution advice in
accepting what BT say as to line quality. I had a lot of trouble with 'bell
tinkle' on my phone line. I reported it several times to BT who after the
usual 'run around' tested the line etc. and sent out an engineer. No problem
they said.

Eventually one very wet stormy night the line went very bad. As BT could
hardly hear me when I phoned them they had to accept there was a problem.
The engineer who came out eventually found ivy growing through a nearby
junction box - (the problem was being exacerbated by water tracking along
the plant growth) and the line corroded at the next junction box (we live in
the sticks). Once he had renewed the line/boxes etc we had no further
problem and have just passed a line test for broadband (its just become
available). I'm sure we wouldn't have got broadband if the line had been in
the 'old' condition.



"Nick" wrote in message
...
I have already been down this road. BT engineers/Local area planners
have been investigating drop outs on my line during the last 3/4 months.
Their conclusion is: The aluminium cable is the cause. Somewhere along
the line there is a static build up caused by an external source. The
static builds up causing line dropouts. Fact: The engineers were quite
surprised to see I was the last in the loop considering I live right
next to the CAB. BT engineers/Local area planners solution to problem
was to change the type of cable. We know it is not a problem with
anything inside the property, as two engineers have carried tests out
between the box on the outside wall and the CAB, this was how the
arrived at what the problem was

But since their last visit I spoke to BT Wholesale, they have now
decided, after 18 months service that I can't get broadband and that
they have no intention of replacing the cable. There are two other
broadband customers in the loop but they are at the beginning of the
loop and do not have problems with dropouts

Mike wrote:
You have no chance at all.
The green box is called a CAB and is fed with
200+pair cable and from that 40 pair cable is fed
in different directions, maybe jointed under ground
down to 4 pair or if fed overhead via drop wires.
They may 'swap' a pair if you are having trouble
but with BT's cable testing they can tell if your
cable is ok. If you are next to the CAB I doubt if
you are the last in the loop
If the cable was faulty you would have problems
with your phone and they would know before you.
Technology has advanced in BT.
I would look at your internal cables
and filters first or your modem, check for updates for
your modem.
I have worked for BT in the past and they
will test if you request, it is done in minutes and
is very accurate within 0.25db




  #7  
Old February 21st 04, 08:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Danny Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Changing cables

Nick wrote:
"so if you wish to joke about something i posted, you could at least have
the courtesy/manners to explain yourself"

Sorry - manners were never a strong point. Did BT really tell you that it
was build-up of static. I would LOVE to see that on headed BT paper (we
could have a real laugh around my cst with it).

To make up for my rudeness let me clarify the cable changing myth - which
actually has some truth in it.

There are A FEW circumstances when changing cables can make just the
difference needed to allow broadband to work. The equation holds true for
many towns where new estates have 'sprung up' off of and to the side older
parts of a town. Let me try and explain this using an example of Kempshott
Park in Basingstoke and a BT cabinet/PCP 136. This cabinet was sited in the
50's a fed from a cable running in one direction from the town as it was
back then. Length 6.4km. As demand increased and new homes were built off
of it more 'e' sides (trunk pairs direct to the exchange) were needed. By
this time however more roads and cival infastructure had been built. When
the new cable was placed it ran more directly to the town (length 5.9km).
Whilst it's tight by swapping some customers onto a different 'vert' and
thus cable in the exchange the tolerance can sometimes be met. New cable,
however, is often plastic insulated thin ****e as opposed to the old heavy
sealed lead cables of yesterday so it's as long as it is broad sometimes.

The one thing that ****es me off from inside of BT is the general lack of
effort made to help potential DSL customers. Its kind of a form of
discrimination in my view. If an ISDN 30 customer has gain problems we are
forced to move heaven and hell swapping e and d sides to get the gain and
error levels low.They have had us bunch multiple pairs together and all
sorts - yet a DSL customer is just not considered 'worthy' *(e sides are
the main trunks from the exchange to the cabinet, d sides are the
'distribution' wires running away from a cab under the roads and streets
breaking up to drop off to homes etc)

DACS has often been an enemy to internet users - but not always so if your a
long way from the exchange and considering asking BT to remove a dacs WAIT
UP! Ironically 'self install'(wires only) customers 7-9 km away from the
exchange have been supplied with ADSL (unwittingly) because of a flaw in
the test system where a customer is fed by a dacs unit. Basically It
reports the wrong distance to the line tester (1.01 or 4.04 km). The result
is line-plant works to remove the dacs and create a 'real' copper pair for
the customer and a sheer 'bypass' of gain and loss measurements occurs. I
have been involved personally in this many times and always tell the
customer the same thing. I explain they are lucky to have been accepted for
ADSL because of the flaw in the system and that BT would remove it if they
were fully aware of the real distance and gain. I advise them to live with
minor dropouts in service as it is still infinitely better than dial-up. I
also tell them that if it really is unstable we will have to take it out.
Of 8 like that last year only 1 has since given up with it. So I will let
you draw your own conclusions.

Another trick is to order business ADSL which for some unknown reason BT
considers to be far more important.

BT has always been about 'tolerance margins' on a network that is not
perfect. In most places it's reasonable. The 60db limit has headroom (i was
under the impression we were working to 65db now anyway) but roughly
equates to good service on half mank cable. Not some service on mank cable
with some good bits :-)

Apologies for my dreadful manners - hope this goes some way to make up for
it.
  #8  
Old February 21st 04, 08:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Danny Richards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Changing cables

John Burton wrote:

"I'm sure we wouldn't have got broadband if the line had been in the 'old'
condition."

There is plenty of truth in that John. Many customers have been refused
service/dsl because a line has failed the test. It is IMPERATIVE that a
customer considering broadband has as near to a perfect line as possible.
Problem is many minor faults lay undetected by the customer. However how do
you get a 'real' test on your line. I recommend that you disconnect
EVERYTHING (extensions, adaptors etc) and leave just a the master socket
and a simple phone plugged in. Dial up BT faults (151) or 0800 800 800 and
request they test the line as you are suffering from noise on the line.
They will test it and advise you if it's ok or not and usually they will
tell you that there will be a charge if the fault is with your equipment.
At this point say "I will leave it then - is there a fault on the line or
not" They will usually be only too happy to tell you that it's testing OK
and that a visit will cost you :-)

Alternatively (off peak please fiddlers) dial 17070 (or 1470 17070 if your
number is permanently withheld) it will read your number back. Select
option 3 (fast test) then option (1) OK/Authorised followed by option 2
(ring back line test) Clear down (hang up) and wait a couple of minutes and
it will call you back with the basic go/no go results. Please play with
this OUTSIDE of BT hours (7.30-18.00) as most exchanges can only support 2
or 4 test calls at a time.

Things to watch for that can drag a line test down (and suggest a fault).
Crackling that builds up with time. Overhearing other calls, the howler, or
exchange machine noise, a 'hum', ringer tripping out or struggling to
ring/unusual cadence of bell. These are ALL faults and need to be resolved
BEFORE you can get the best results from ANY adsl test.
  #9  
Old February 21st 04, 09:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Changing cables

Thank you for your informative reply, it was quite interesting. As for
the BT letter consider it done, I'll get it scanned on to the PC ASAP

Danny Richards wrote:

Nick wrote:
"so if you wish to joke about something i posted, you could at least have
the courtesy/manners to explain yourself"

Sorry - manners were never a strong point. Did BT really tell you that it
was build-up of static. I would LOVE to see that on headed BT paper (we
could have a real laugh around my cst with it).

To make up for my rudeness let me clarify the cable changing myth - which
actually has some truth in it.

There are A FEW circumstances when changing cables can make just the
difference needed to allow broadband to work. The equation holds true for
many towns where new estates have 'sprung up' off of and to the side older
parts of a town. Let me try and explain this using an example of Kempshott
Park in Basingstoke and a BT cabinet/PCP 136. This cabinet was sited in the
50's a fed from a cable running in one direction from the town as it was
back then. Length 6.4km. As demand increased and new homes were built off
of it more 'e' sides (trunk pairs direct to the exchange) were needed. By
this time however more roads and cival infastructure had been built. When
the new cable was placed it ran more directly to the town (length 5.9km).
Whilst it's tight by swapping some customers onto a different 'vert' and
thus cable in the exchange the tolerance can sometimes be met. New cable,
however, is often plastic insulated thin ****e as opposed to the old heavy
sealed lead cables of yesterday so it's as long as it is broad sometimes.

The one thing that ****es me off from inside of BT is the general lack of
effort made to help potential DSL customers. Its kind of a form of
discrimination in my view. If an ISDN 30 customer has gain problems we are
forced to move heaven and hell swapping e and d sides to get the gain and
error levels low.They have had us bunch multiple pairs together and all
sorts - yet a DSL customer is just not considered 'worthy' *(e sides are
the main trunks from the exchange to the cabinet, d sides are the
'distribution' wires running away from a cab under the roads and streets
breaking up to drop off to homes etc)

DACS has often been an enemy to internet users - but not always so if your a
long way from the exchange and considering asking BT to remove a dacs WAIT
UP! Ironically 'self install'(wires only) customers 7-9 km away from the
exchange have been supplied with ADSL (unwittingly) because of a flaw in
the test system where a customer is fed by a dacs unit. Basically It
reports the wrong distance to the line tester (1.01 or 4.04 km). The result
is line-plant works to remove the dacs and create a 'real' copper pair for
the customer and a sheer 'bypass' of gain and loss measurements occurs. I
have been involved personally in this many times and always tell the
customer the same thing. I explain they are lucky to have been accepted for
ADSL because of the flaw in the system and that BT would remove it if they
were fully aware of the real distance and gain. I advise them to live with
minor dropouts in service as it is still infinitely better than dial-up. I
also tell them that if it really is unstable we will have to take it out.
Of 8 like that last year only 1 has since given up with it. So I will let
you draw your own conclusions.

Another trick is to order business ADSL which for some unknown reason BT
considers to be far more important.

BT has always been about 'tolerance margins' on a network that is not
perfect. In most places it's reasonable. The 60db limit has headroom (i was
under the impression we were working to 65db now anyway) but roughly
equates to good service on half mank cable. Not some service on mank cable
with some good bits :-)

Apologies for my dreadful manners - hope this goes some way to make up for
it.


  #10  
Old February 21st 04, 11:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Kráftéé
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 207
Default Changing cables

Danny Richards wrote:
Nick wrote:
"so if you wish to joke about something i posted, you could at
least have the courtesy/manners to explain yourself"

Sorry - manners were never a strong point. Did BT really tell you
that it was build-up of static. I would LOVE to see that on headed
BT paper (we could have a real laugh around my cst with it).


It's not as bad as the customer who was told that their line was noisy
because the birds were pecking at it........I kid you not....


 




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