A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

DACs, REN and ADSL



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 8th 04, 05:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Doki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default DACs, REN and ADSL

We've currently got 2 phone lines, via a DACS II box. What we'd like to end
up with is 1 line, and no DACS.

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have 2
phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we want to move
a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL filters do anything to help
with REN numbers, or are we scuppered trying to run this many phones on an
ADSL line? I know the fax has a REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum. Is it
possible to get low REN phones perhaps?


  #2  
Old May 8th 04, 05:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul Landregan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default DACs, REN and ADSL


"Doki" wrote in message
...
We've currently got 2 phone lines, via a DACS II box. What we'd like to

end
up with is 1 line, and no DACS.

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have 2
phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we want to

move
a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL filters do anything to

help
with REN numbers, or are we scuppered trying to run this many phones on an
ADSL line? I know the fax has a REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum. Is

it
possible to get low REN phones perhaps?



Although phones are rated with a REN of 1. the actual real ren value is
probably much lower. I have had 7 phones on one line without any problems at
all.


  #3  
Old May 8th 04, 05:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
King Queen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default DACs, REN and ADSL

On Sat, 8 May 2004 16:35:24 +0100, "Doki"
wrote:

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have 2
phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we want to move
a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL filters do anything to help
with REN numbers, or are we scuppered trying to run this many phones on an
ADSL line? I know the fax has a REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum. Is it
possible to get low REN phones perhaps?


not being funny but each phone generally has a ren of 1, so that is
two phones (ren 2), a DECT (ren 1), and a fax (ren 1) - added up this
is 4 that should be fine?

Or are you worried about the long extension wire - suppose this could
attenuate the ring signal a bit but surely not enough to cause a
ringing problem, after all I should imagine BT's figure of 4 is a
conservative one. I don't think you will have a problem.

The filter shouldn't make any difference to the REN capacity either
way.

I don't think you will need it but I did at one point see some form of
"booster" for sale that you plug into a socket and allows you to
connect more phones without ringing problems. I don't know if it was
officially approved though - always dodgy using stuff that plugs into
the mains on a telephone line if it isn't approved!



--
To email me remove ".lartsspammers"
http://www.kingqueen.org.uk
  #4  
Old May 8th 04, 05:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Doki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default DACs, REN and ADSL



King Queen wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2004 16:35:24 +0100, "Doki"
wrote:

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have
2 phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we
want to move a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL
filters do anything to help with REN numbers, or are we scuppered
trying to run this many phones on an ADSL line? I know the fax has a
REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum. Is it possible to get low REN
phones perhaps?


not being funny but each phone generally has a ren of 1, so that is
two phones (ren 2), a DECT (ren 1), and a fax (ren 1) - added up this
is 4 that should be fine?

Or are you worried about the long extension wire - suppose this could
attenuate the ring signal a bit but surely not enough to cause a
ringing problem, after all I should imagine BT's figure of 4 is a
conservative one. I don't think you will have a problem.

The filter shouldn't make any difference to the REN capacity either
way.

I don't think you will need it but I did at one point see some form of
"booster" for sale that you plug into a socket and allows you to
connect more phones without ringing problems. I don't know if it was
officially approved though - always dodgy using stuff that plugs into
the mains on a telephone line if it isn't approved!


I didn't realise that the ADSL modem had a ren of 0. FWIW we're now keeping
the two lines for a while, as a seperate fax line is useful for a couple of
months of the year. This way BT will come, put some new shiny copper in, we
can switch the ADSL to the other line if we like, and then stop the second
line. Then we can have a second line back when we want without the hassle of
waiting for BT to get their act together and put some wires in.


  #5  
Old May 8th 04, 05:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil McKerracher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default DACs, REN and ADSL


"Doki" wrote in message
...
We've currently got 2 phone lines, via a DACS II box. What we'd like to

end
up with is 1 line, and no DACS.

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have 2
phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we want to

move
a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL filters do anything to

help
with REN numbers, or are we scuppered trying to run this many phones on an
ADSL line? I know the fax has a REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum. Is

it
possible to get low REN phones perhaps?


Most modern phones have a REN lower than 1 in practice, so it will probably
work. You can get a ring booster from BT if it doesn't.

You're not supposed to connect more than four devices to a line, and
fractional REN numbers are not supposed to be shown on labels but both
happen. ADSL filters shouldn't have any effect on REN numbers.

--
Phil McKerracher
www.mckerracher.org


  #6  
Old May 8th 04, 07:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default DACs, REN and ADSL

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doki wrote:


I didn't realise that the ADSL modem had a ren of 0. FWIW we're now
keeping the two lines for a while, as a seperate fax line is useful
for a couple of months of the year. This way BT will come, put some
new shiny copper in, we can switch the ADSL to the other line if we
like, and then stop the second line. Then we can have a second line
back when we want without the hassle of waiting for BT to get their
act together and put some wires in.


Do you want to *send* lots of faxes - or only to *receive* a lot?
If the latter, you may be able to make use of a fax-to-email facility - such
as that provided by PlusNet on most of their ADSL accounts. You are
allocated an 0870 (so-called National Rate) number to which faxes can be
sent. These are automatically converted to .tif (graphics) files and sent to
your nominated email account as attachments - thus not requiring the use of
the voice part of your phone line. You will still have to use a fax-modem
over the voice circuit to *send* faxes - but you can often choose when to do
so, thus not tying up the phone line at inconvenient times.

This could just save you the cost of keeping the second phone line.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!


  #7  
Old May 8th 04, 07:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Doki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default DACs, REN and ADSL



Tiscali Tim wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Doki wrote:


I didn't realise that the ADSL modem had a ren of 0. FWIW we're now
keeping the two lines for a while, as a seperate fax line is useful
for a couple of months of the year. This way BT will come, put some
new shiny copper in, we can switch the ADSL to the other line if we
like, and then stop the second line. Then we can have a second line
back when we want without the hassle of waiting for BT to get their
act together and put some wires in.


Do you want to *send* lots of faxes - or only to *receive* a lot?
If the latter, you may be able to make use of a fax-to-email facility
- such as that provided by PlusNet on most of their ADSL accounts.
You are allocated an 0870 (so-called National Rate) number to which
faxes can be sent. These are automatically converted to .tif
(graphics) files and sent to your nominated email account as
attachments - thus not requiring the use of the voice part of your
phone line. You will still have to use a fax-modem over the voice
circuit to *send* faxes - but you can often choose when to do so,
thus not tying up the phone line at inconvenient times.

This could just save you the cost of keeping the second phone line.


That could be very handy. We have to recieve faxes, and generally they're
sent by an automated system that has a big list of faxes to send, and if
your fax is engaged it gets thrown to the back of the queue and you don't
get the order for a long while. I'll certainly look into that, cheers.


  #8  
Old May 8th 04, 11:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Doki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default DACs, REN and ADSL



chris wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2004 16:35:24 +0100 and in article 1084030319.2480.0
@nnrp-t71-03.news.uk.clara.net, Doki said...
snip

DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!
DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!! DOKI!!

lol


Bre.


  #9  
Old May 9th 04, 01:46 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default DACs, REN and ADSL


"Doki" wrote in message
...
We've currently got 2 phone lines, via a DACS II box. What we'd like to
end
up with is 1 line, and no DACS.

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have 2
phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we want to
move
a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL filters do anything to
help
with REN numbers, or are we scuppered trying to run this many phones on an
ADSL line? I know the fax has a REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum. Is
it
possible to get low REN phones perhaps?


You can always buy a REN booster if you have problems, Maplin do one at:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/?userid=Sear...etmodule=32828


Paul



  #10  
Old May 9th 04, 01:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Steele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default DACs, REN and ADSL


"Paul G" wrote in message
...

"Doki" wrote in message
...
We've currently got 2 phone lines, via a DACS II box. What we'd like to
end
up with is 1 line, and no DACS.

However, I'm not entirely sure that's possible, as we currently have 2
phones on long extensions and a DECT phone on the line, and we want to
move
a fax over from the line we want rid of. Do ADSL filters do anything to
help
with REN numbers, or are we scuppered trying to run this many phones on

an
ADSL line? I know the fax has a REN of 1, and BT say 4 is the maximum.

Is
it
possible to get low REN phones perhaps?


You can always buy a REN booster if you have problems, Maplin do one at:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/?userid=Sear...etmodule=32828


Paul

The REN issue is more a problem for you. BT sockets only support a REN or 4
but will often give a bit more or the phones take less than they say.

I have (or rather had) a much more complex situation than you. I had 4
phones + a fax switch + one or two computers connected (desktop and laptop)
simultaneously. Behind the fax switch there is a fax machine (REN= 3!!!)
and an Answering machine. All 4 phones were connected via the fax switch. I
expected to have problems as the REN count was up to a bit over 5 even
allowing for the fax switch to buffer the ringing for the fax machine.

When I had ADSL connected last year I found is that all the phones bar one
rang properly. The fax switch and answering machine worked fine. The phone
that stopped had always been a bit of a problem. I tried connecting all my
phones through a single ADSL filter. My phone wiring made this easy and it
is the logical thing to do. All the phones run through the fax switch anyway
which needed one of its own.

I cured my reluctant phone my giving it its OWN ADSL filter. The ADSL
filters ignore the ring capacitor in the master socket (at least all the
ones I have seen do) and generate their own. They don't seem quite so good
as the original BT master socket. There were now two ADSL filters in series.
I did try buying a more expensive filter that guaranteed compliance with the
BT standard but that was no better.

If you follow the standard practice of having a separate ADSL filter for
each phone socket then you will probably not see any difference as each will
generate the ring current from the line. My fax switch made that impossible.

The length of your extensions should not be a problem. The DECT phone will
have a REN of one. I counted that you should have a REN of 4 and therefore
no problem.

I have more recently converted most of my phones to DECT and have one base
station and 3 handsets. We have one remaining land line. I am now back to a
single filter for all my landline phones.

ADSL by the way is working perfectly.

John Steele


 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DACS & Broadband Sunil Sood uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 5 April 23rd 04 02:20 AM
can i get isdn/bt midband if my line has a DACS fitted John uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 April 2nd 04 01:47 AM
line sharing device (dacs) and broadband banzai uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 3 January 20th 04 04:31 PM
Can BT test the line with a DACS still installed ? Gareth Jones uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 16 December 9th 03 11:06 PM
Removed DACS unit and still only 28.8k??? SalesGuy uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 8 December 7th 03 02:04 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2019 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.