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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

ASDL is analogue technology



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 29th 04, 05:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham
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Posts: 106
Default ASDL is analogue technology

Anyone got a problem with that?


Graham.



%Profound_observation%


  #2  
Old May 29th 04, 06:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
·.¸¸.·´¯`Underground Zero´¯`·.¸¸.·
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default ASDL is analogue technology

"Graham" wrote in message
...
Anyone got a problem with that?

Yeah me ya prat.
It's ADSL not ASDL and if you can't get that bit right what hope is there
for the rest of it.

% = 0


--
·.¸¸.·´¯`Underground Zero´¯`·.¸¸.·

" OFM#20 - Going, Going, G....... Yeah you wish"


  #3  
Old May 29th 04, 06:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham
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Posts: 106
Default ASDL is analogue technology

"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸ .·´¯
OH SIHT!
"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸ .·´¯


  #4  
Old May 29th 04, 07:33 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory [UK]
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Posts: 208
Default ADSL is analogue technology

"Graham" wrote in message

Anyone got a problem with that?


Yes.

If ADSL is analogue then so is DAB radio and Digital television because
the same thing is happening - a digital signal is being encoded for
transmission over an analogue medium.

i.e. ADSL isn't analogue by the normal definition of analogue.

--

Brian Gregory (In the UK).

To email me remove the letter vee.


  #5  
Old May 29th 04, 07:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
·.¸¸.·´¯`Underground Zero´¯`·.¸¸.·
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default ASDL is analogue technology

"Graham" wrote in message
...
"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸ .·´¯
OH SIHT!
"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸.·´¯"·.¸¸ .·´¯

Oh On


--
·.¸¸.·´¯`Underground Zero´¯`·.¸¸.·

" OFM#20 - Going, Going, G....... Yeah you wish"


  #6  
Old May 29th 04, 09:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham
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Posts: 106
Default ADSL is analogue technology


"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"Graham" wrote in message

Anyone got a problem with that?


Yes.

If ADSL is analogue then so is DAB radio and Digital television because
the same thing is happening - a digital signal is being encoded for
transmission over an analogue medium.

i.e. ADSL isn't analogue by the normal definition of analogue.

--

Brian Gregory (In the UK).

To email me remove the letter vee.



That's my point.

So let me put it another way.
Why is a V90 modem thought of as analogue, and an ADSL modem as digital?



  #8  
Old May 29th 04, 11:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham
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Posts: 106
Default ADSL is analogue technology


"Peter R Cook" wrote in message
...
In message , Graham
writes

"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"Graham" wrote in message

Anyone got a problem with that?

Yes.

If ADSL is analogue then so is DAB radio and Digital television because
the same thing is happening - a digital signal is being encoded for
transmission over an analogue medium.

i.e. ADSL isn't analogue by the normal definition of analogue.

--

Brian Gregory (In the UK).

To email me remove the letter vee.



That's my point.

So let me put it another way.
Why is a V90 modem thought of as analogue, and an ADSL modem as digital?



For ADSL the telecommunications network (aka BT) transfers the digital
bit stream from one end to the other as a digital bit stream -
regenerating the signals at the digital level as necessary.
For a V90 Modem the network transfers analogue tones generated by the
modem from the bit stream. It does digitise the tones for its own
purposes, but that digital bit stream bears only a limited relationship
to the originating bit stream because of the modems frequency encoding,
and is reversed before delivery - it is the responsibility of the
receiver to transform the analogue tones back into a digital bit stream.


--
Peter R Cook


56k modems use quadrature amplitude modulation of audable (albeit not very
musical) tones

ADSL uses DMT (Discrete Multitone) modulation. The "tones" being radio
frequency carriers.
So what are you saying? If its audio its analogue & if its RF its digital?


Graham.


%Profound_observation%



  #9  
Old May 30th 04, 12:34 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory [UK]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default ADSL is analogue technology

"Graham" wrote in message

That's my point.

So let me put it another way.
Why is a V90 modem thought of as analogue, and an ADSL modem as
digital?


Because people are either somewhat ignorant or don't think before
labelling something as analogue or digital?

The distinction is in practise a little vague.

e.g. before DAB, NICAM etc one might have thought it reasonable to call
a radio that receives normal analogue AM and FM radio "digital" if it
was tuned by a PLL controlled by microcontroller.

--

Brian Gregory (In the UK).

To email me remove the letter vee.


  #10  
Old May 30th 04, 02:09 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default ADSL is analogue technology

On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:58:02 +0100, Graham wrote:
For ADSL the telecommunications network (aka BT) transfers the digital
bit stream from one end to the other as a digital bit stream -
regenerating the signals at the digital level as necessary.
For a V90 Modem the network transfers analogue tones generated by the
modem from the bit stream. It does digitise the tones for its own
purposes, but that digital bit stream bears only a limited relationship
to the originating bit stream because of the modems frequency encoding,
and is reversed before delivery - it is the responsibility of the
receiver to transform the analogue tones back into a digital bit stream.


56k modems use quadrature amplitude modulation of audable (albeit not
very musical) tones

ADSL uses DMT (Discrete Multitone) modulation. The "tones" being radio
frequency carriers.
So what are you saying? If its audio its analogue & if its RF its
digital?


The definition i use is that discrete signals are digital... and this can
be a flash-light or morse code. Analogue is non-discrete signals (radio
waves, light waves).

All carrier systems that I can think of are analogue, and some coding
system is used to send the digital signal over the analogue carrier.

Because using 3Mhz and -3Mhz to represent 1 and 0 is not 100% efficient
different coding techniques have been invented, so 1 baud may transmit
many bits. (Only one baud can be transmitted per time period, but 4 bits
may represented on each baud). Using 3Mhz and 4Mhz to represent 011 and
100 isn't a wise option because attenuation over distance, but
sophisticated coding schemes can overcome this.

Ethernet.... manchester encoding
ADSL (UK)... DMT Coding (though others exist)
56k Modem... Trellis Coded QAM
CableModem.. 64/256 QAM

Surely ADSL is a digital coding mechanism and an analogue carrier.... and
this is the same a standard modems... digital coding converted to
analogue. (although because modems use the same frequencies as voice
signals on the POTS, we recognise them as audible signals- but with ADSL
we don't bother putting a speaker on the wire and listening to the higher
frequencies used by ADSL)

Analogue TV is analogue because lumiance and chorminance is transmitted,
so you may see a given pixel is 95% bright for one person and 94% bright
for your neighbor, what is transmitted is displayed on your tv set.. it
isn't converted into discrete data.[1]

Digital TV is digital because what is displayed on your screen isn't what
is transmitted... MPG data is coded (with I think 16QAM), but we
receive it in over UHF which is an analogue carrier. (We could just as
well receive it printed out on paper and type it in bit by bit)


Regards,
Adam

[1] my broadcasting knowledge needed confirming :
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~uncletony/tv-stuff.htm


 




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