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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

A (probably daft) Micro Filter question



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 10th 04, 03:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Anthony Bowles
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Posts: 4
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

I helped someone set up their new Pipex broadband account the other day and
it was working fine until last night (email send and receive problems).

I've just been round to have a look and the pop3 and smtp ports were blocked
(according to outlook express). After fannying on for a bit I decided to
phone Pipex. The recorded message was very hissy then became clear at which
point I noticed the modem had disconnected and would not reconnect.

I found out he didn't have the phone I was using plugged into a micro
filter. So I plugged it into one and lo and behold everything worked hunky
dory again. And just to test, I took it back out and it stopped working.

So (just out of curiosity and future reference),

A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where the
connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email wouldn't.

B) are micro filters supposed to stop the broadband interfering with the
phone, or vice versa, or both?

Anth


  #2  
Old June 10th 04, 04:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil
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Posts: 10
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where
the
connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email wouldn't.


No, as E-Mail travels over the exact same connection as normal browsing in
this sense

B) are micro filters supposed to stop the broadband interfering with the
phone, or vice versa, or both?


What else do you think they're there for ;-)....Yes, they are to split the
ADSL and Phone signals so neither interfere with eachother.


  #3  
Old June 10th 04, 04:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
James Hill
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Posts: 20
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question


A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where the
connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email wouldn't.


Probably not. If you've got the internet connection, you've got the
internet connection. The modem/phoneline shouldn't really care
whether your emailing or browsing.

B) are micro filters supposed to stop the broadband interfering with the
phone, or vice versa, or both?


Both.

Regards,

James
Zen Internet.
  #4  
Old June 10th 04, 04:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian G Batten
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Posts: 49
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

In article ,
Anthony Bowles wrote:
A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where the
connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email wouldn't.


Unlikely, but possible.


B) are micro filters supposed to stop the broadband interfering with the
phone, or vice versa, or both?


Both.

ian



  #5  
Old June 10th 04, 04:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Stirling
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Posts: 807
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

Anthony Bowles wrote:
I helped someone set up their new Pipex broadband account the other day and
it was working fine until last night (email send and receive problems).

snip
I found out he didn't have the phone I was using plugged into a micro
filter. So I plugged it into one and lo and behold everything worked hunky
dory again. And just to test, I took it back out and it stopped working.

So (just out of curiosity and future reference),

A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where the
connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email wouldn't.


Certainly not, if the ADSL connection is established, and you can browse,
then it'll be fine for email.

B) are micro filters supposed to stop the broadband interfering with the
phone, or vice versa, or both?


Both.
Close to the exchange, ADSL and phone can work without filters.
As you get further away, the phone kills the ADSL connection when
picked up, and even further away the ADSL connection requires a filter
to work at all.
(phones may vary)
  #6  
Old June 10th 04, 05:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Hastie
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Posts: 2
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:03:21 +0000, Ian G Batten wrote:

In article , Anthony Bowles
wrote:
A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where
the connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email
wouldn't.


Unlikely, but possible.


How? To have the system do this deliberately would be more trouble than
it's worth. If it were just a matter of intermittent connection it would
affect browsing far more, as it requires a more continuous connection than
SMTP or POP.

--
Ian.

EOM

  #7  
Old June 10th 04, 07:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
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Posts: 755
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ian Stirling wrote:

Close to the exchange, ADSL and phone can work without filters.
As you get further away, the phone kills the ADSL connection when
picked up, and even further away the ADSL connection requires a filter
to work at all.
(phones may vary)



That's extremely interesting! Until recently, I tended to believe the
assertions made by some that ADSL wouldn't be affected by phones, but phones
*would* be affected by ADSL in the absence of filters.

However, my own experience - when I recently upgraded to ADSL - didn't bear
this out. My ADSL got turned on a bit sooner than I expected, before my
filters had arrived - but I did have an ADSL modem. The modem wouldn't synch
when *any* phones were in circuit (not in use, as in off-hook, just in
circuit). When I unplugged all the phones (or otherwise disconnected them by
plugging my ADSL modem into the master socket's test socket with the
faceplate (and hence extension wiring) removed, ADSL worked perfectly. [As
soon as my filtered faceplate arrived, and I installed it, everything worked
perfectly *with* the phones in circuit, much to my relief].

All of this fits very well with Ian's statement that the extent to which
phones interfere with ADSL depends on distance from the exchange. I am
relatively far away, and my line loss is such that 512k is fine, but 1M or
2M seem unlikely.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #8  
Old June 10th 04, 07:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Stirling
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Posts: 807
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

Tiscali Tim wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ian Stirling wrote:

Close to the exchange, ADSL and phone can work without filters.
As you get further away, the phone kills the ADSL connection when
picked up, and even further away the ADSL connection requires a filter
to work at all.
(phones may vary)



That's extremely interesting! Until recently, I tended to believe the
assertions made by some that ADSL wouldn't be affected by phones, but phones
*would* be affected by ADSL in the absence of filters.

However, my own experience - when I recently upgraded to ADSL - didn't bear
this out. My ADSL got turned on a bit sooner than I expected, before my
filters had arrived - but I did have an ADSL modem. The modem wouldn't synch
when *any* phones were in circuit (not in use, as in off-hook, just in
circuit). When I unplugged all the phones (or otherwise disconnected them by


Phones vary in design, the above information was from the BT engineer
who installed it. (well, came to remove my HH box, and test the line).
  #9  
Old June 10th 04, 07:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

You have a dud microfilter. I have had the same problem and the replacement
fixed it.

"Anthony Bowles" wrote in message
...
I helped someone set up their new Pipex broadband account the other day

and
it was working fine until last night (email send and receive problems).

I've just been round to have a look and the pop3 and smtp ports were

blocked
(according to outlook express). After fannying on for a bit I decided to
phone Pipex. The recorded message was very hissy then became clear at

which
point I noticed the modem had disconnected and would not reconnect.

I found out he didn't have the phone I was using plugged into a micro
filter. So I plugged it into one and lo and behold everything worked

hunky
dory again. And just to test, I took it back out and it stopped working.

So (just out of curiosity and future reference),

A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where

the
connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email wouldn't.

B) are micro filters supposed to stop the broadband interfering with the
phone, or vice versa, or both?

Anth




  #10  
Old June 11th 04, 12:17 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian G Batten
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default A (probably daft) Micro Filter question

In article ,
Ian Hastie wrote:
A) would the lack of a micro filter on that phone cause a problem where
the connection works fine (you could still browse ok) but the email
wouldn't.


Unlikely, but possible.


How? To have the system do this deliberately would be more trouble than
it's worth. If it were just a matter of intermittent connection it would


I have had LAN cases where a cable will pass telnet and ssh but passes
precisely zero NFS or SMB traffic: if the error rate is high enough 200
byte packets get through, albeit with quite a high loss and
retransmission rate, but larger packets will always fail. Indeed, pings
with varying packet sizes are standard practice here, and I still have a
bug open with Sun requesting sweeping sizes for their multipath link
detection bode. I was thinking that if you had a high-ish upstream error
rate, browsing might just about work (small requests, lots of acks, no
bulk transfer) while mail transmission wouldn't (bulk transfer).

ian

 




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