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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Decisions, decisons!



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 25th 04, 10:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sobey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 234
Default Decisions, decisons!

Hi all

Well, through no real fault of ntl, I'm leaving the realm of Cable and
joining the price war market that is ADSL, where I can find, I hope,
better value for my money.

I've shortlisted Demon and Plusnet as the two names I know and would
trust, and a static IP is necessary. I know I can use dyndns, but I'd
prefer a guarantee my IP will always be the same.

Out of those two, which would you go for, and why?

Richard
  #2  
Old June 25th 04, 10:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sobey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 234
Default Decisions, decisons!

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:00:19 +0100, Richard Sobey
wrote:

Damn, this is going to be expensive! 75 for a phone line, 50 to
activate it for ADSL, some more for a ADSL modem (I already have a
router). Not sure whether it's actually worth it now.
  #3  
Old June 26th 04, 09:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Bradley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 329
Default Decisions, decisons!

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:15:02 +0100, Richard Sobey
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:00:19 +0100, Richard Sobey
wrote:

Damn, this is going to be expensive! 75 for a phone line, 50 to
activate it for ADSL, some more for a ADSL modem (I already have a
router). Not sure whether it's actually worth it now.


In general everyone with an ADSL service has paid these sums of money
at some time or another, sometimes a bit more and ocassionally a lot
less when offers of half price activation and "free" modem have been
available.

You are ditching your cable service for voice calls but presumably
retaining the service for their TV offering, so the 75 telephone
connection charge is with you anyway. I am not that sure if it's that
much anyway if you are "returning to BT". This is a wise move since
it is a bit inconclusive that phone services via cable are any cheaper
than BT but in any event you have the choice of many carrier pre
select providers in the elusive search for cheaper voice calls.

You need to consider your ADSL service provider very carefully and
lurking around this newsgroup for a month or so would give you a good
clue as to providers worth considering; and there is always they ADSL
guide WEB site for more information.

USB modems do what they say on the tin but sharing the ADSL services,
now or in the future, with another PC may not be a happy experience
with that as part of your hardware, A router/ADSL modem that includes
a [basic] firewall would be a good investment.

With all this money going out for the ADSL service, is it worth it?
Of course it is, providing you are go on the Internet daily for an
hour or more.

David Bradley

  #4  
Old June 26th 04, 11:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sobey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 234
Default Decisions, decisons!

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:52:23 +0100, David Bradley
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:00:19 +0100, Richard Sobey
wrote:

Damn, this is going to be expensive! 75 for a phone line, 50 to
activate it for ADSL, some more for a ADSL modem (I already have a
router). Not sure whether it's actually worth it now.


In general everyone with an ADSL service has paid these sums of money
at some time or another, sometimes a bit more and ocassionally a lot
less when offers of half price activation and "free" modem have been
available.


Understood. I'll get the phone line in ASAP then wait a few to see if
I can pick up an offer somewhere

You are ditching your cable service for voice calls but presumably
retaining the service for their TV offering, so the 75 telephone
connection charge is with you anyway. I am not that sure if it's that
much anyway if you are "returning to BT". This is a wise move since
it is a bit inconclusive that phone services via cable are any cheaper
than BT but in any event you have the choice of many carrier pre
select providers in the elusive search for cheaper voice calls.


I get my TV through Sky, I have never been fond of ntl's Digital
service. The trouble is, I'm still not sure at this point whether
there is a second line in the property I live in. The first line is
out of bounds really since it's my parents, and I'd rather have
everything myself. Besides, it's in the opposite end of the house! So,
I'm not really returning, I'm a brand new customer.

USB modems do what they say on the tin but sharing the ADSL services,
now or in the future, with another PC may not be a happy experience
with that as part of your hardware, A router/ADSL modem that includes
a [basic] firewall would be a good investment.


I've got a Netgear FVS318 cable router/firewall device which is
excellent. I'm not entirely sure how to integrate this into an ADSL
environment or what the costs will be, but I've been told it's
possible. There's no way I'd go with a USB modem

Thanks very much for your advice David.
  #6  
Old June 26th 04, 01:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Clive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Decisions, decisons!


"Richard Sobey" wrote in message
...
Hi all

Well, through no real fault of ntl, I'm leaving the realm of Cable and
joining the price war market that is ADSL, where I can find, I hope,
better value for my money.

I've shortlisted Demon and Plusnet as the two names I know and would
trust, and a static IP is necessary. I know I can use dyndns, but I'd
prefer a guarantee my IP will always be the same.

Out of those two, which would you go for, and why?

Richard


I'm also moving from Cable (Telewest/Blueyonder) and decided to go for
Pipex. I used to use them a long time ago for dialup and never had any
problems. they also seem to do fairly well in reviews

Clive


  #7  
Old June 26th 04, 02:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
poster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,542
Default Decisions, decisons!

On 26 Jun 2004 11:49, Richard Sobey wrote:

I've got a Netgear FVS318 cable router/firewall device which is
excellent. I'm not entirely sure how to integrate this into an ADSL


If it is ethernet in, ethernet out, then perhaps fairly easily but to another
router with built in ADSL modem. It might be as easy to look for some other
product with similar firewall features and a built-in ADSL modem, and sell
the one you have (though I don't know how good the s/h market is - brand
new some are under 40 pounds, I think).

No experience of Demon's ADSL, sorry... I've had PlusNet's 500 kbps service
for over a year if that says a thing... news service is becoming comparable
with Clara, if you have tried that and binary newsgroups are of interest. You
can even try it at the moment for a selection of the groups/completion, by
getting a free trial BTBroadband user's account (the beta news servers allow
access, while in beta, and the BTB user account has a 3 month free trial
offer on!)

As for the options, if you went to some other ISPs, you could get the USB
modem to get you started (amd ease the initial outlay a little, buying some
suitable hardware a month or so later, so as not to have such a hit on the
plastic when you are getting the BT line and setup... Look for some of
the free/included deals but do watch out for free setup and a 12 month
minimum which have an "exit penalty" if you close the account...
the ISP *has* to cover their costs somehow.

Back to PlusNet - not sure why you want the fixed IP but there are some types
of restriction if you are thinking of business use, so do consider that quite
carefully if it is in the future planning... Oh, and not forgetting my link
for a small reduction in monthly payment, from 0p to 50p (!) depending on
which PN account is used - most low end accounts offer nothing but there's
always a chance of someone moving up http://tinyurl.com/8ib9 Peter M.



Peter M.
  #8  
Old June 26th 04, 06:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Bradley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 329
Default Decisions, decisons!

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:49:30 +0100, Richard Sobey
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:52:23 +0100, David Bradley
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:00:19 +0100, Richard Sobey
wrote:

Damn, this is going to be expensive! 75 for a phone line, 50 to
activate it for ADSL, some more for a ADSL modem (I already have a
router). Not sure whether it's actually worth it now.


In general everyone with an ADSL service has paid these sums of money
at some time or another, sometimes a bit more and ocassionally a lot
less when offers of half price activation and "free" modem have been
available.


Understood. I'll get the phone line in ASAP then wait a few to see if
I can pick up an offer somewhere

You are ditching your cable service for voice calls but presumably
retaining the service for their TV offering, so the 75 telephone
connection charge is with you anyway. I am not that sure if it's that
much anyway if you are "returning to BT". This is a wise move since
it is a bit inconclusive that phone services via cable are any cheaper
than BT but in any event you have the choice of many carrier pre
select providers in the elusive search for cheaper voice calls.


I get my TV through Sky, I have never been fond of ntl's Digital
service. The trouble is, I'm still not sure at this point whether
there is a second line in the property I live in. The first line is
out of bounds really since it's my parents, and I'd rather have
everything myself. Besides, it's in the opposite end of the house! So,
I'm not really returning, I'm a brand new customer.

USB modems do what they say on the tin but sharing the ADSL services,
now or in the future, with another PC may not be a happy experience
with that as part of your hardware, A router/ADSL modem that includes
a [basic] firewall would be a good investment.


I've got a Netgear FVS318 cable router/firewall device which is
excellent. I'm not entirely sure how to integrate this into an ADSL
environment or what the costs will be, but I've been told it's
possible. There's no way I'd go with a USB modem

Thanks very much for your advice David.


With the additional information provided, and noting the comments of
other posters, I would like to add the following observations.

1) As a brand new customer to BT I am not sure that you can get a line
installed for 'just' 75; it might be as much as 99 + VAT with also a
deposit against bad debts being lodged with BT for the first 12 months
- have you actually looked into this aspect? If all this is getting a
bit on the expensive side why not consider having an extension socket
fitted by BT instead? That's a one off payment with no ongoing rental
to consider. Remember that ADSL connectivity and voice calls are
possible at the same time.

2) The Sky Box is supposed to be connected to a working telephone
line, so assuming you watch television in the part of the house where
the computer is situated, having a nearby phone socket for that alone
would be pretty useful.

3) You could subscribe to BT's service of having a second number on
the same line that has a distinctive ringing tone for your incoming
voice calls. Using a 'dialler box' to have your calls [only] routed
through another voice call provider would give your own itemised bill,
thus separating them from you parents However the issue of a 'bad
debt deposit' might appear on the radar again.

4) Remember that it is "normal" policy to have an ADSL filter for each
piece of equipment hanging off this line. Remember to have these in
place before you connect your ADSL modem.

5) Check that a modem router is indeed suitable for ADSL use. I have a
gut feeling that this is not the case.

6) Recommendations in this newsgroup about any ADSL provider should be
discounted - there are too many postings on this subject that are not
genuine. Instead, make note of problems existing users are having
with a particular ADSL provider and asked yourself 'do I want to
experience the same sort of aggravation?'

7) If you have purchased your own Domain name, make absolutely sure
that your chosen ADSL provider will allow your 'reply to' address
through their SMTP server - some don't, and others require a
registration procedure which can be quite a hassle; especially BT.

8) If you buy your own modem, then most ADSL providers' minimum
contract period is just one month.

9) If you decide that AOL is for you, then don't expect a lot of help
from this newsgroup. IMHO the two are mutually exclusive.

DAVID BRADLEY

  #9  
Old June 26th 04, 11:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Sobey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 234
Default Decisions, decisons!

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 18:17:19 +0100, David Bradley
wrote:

With the additional information provided, and noting the comments of
other posters, I would like to add the following observations.


Ok, I've decided to buy a new house, a bit drastic really but hey, I
need to move out anyway - I've been thinking about it for months. No,
the fact I need a BT phone line obviously wasn't the reason for this
decision

1) As a brand new customer to BT I am not sure that you can get a line
installed for 'just' 75; it might be as much as 99 + VAT with also a
deposit against bad debts being lodged with BT for the first 12 months
- have you actually looked into this aspect?


I hadn't, the CS rep I spoke too insisted the maximum I should pay is
74.99, not taking into account bad debts or so. I'm fairly sure my
credit rating is on the good side, I've never had trouble with it in
the past anyway.

2) The Sky Box is supposed to be connected to a working telephone
line


*cough* It's not been connected since the engineer left over a year
ago.

5) Check that a modem router is indeed suitable for ADSL use. I have a
gut feeling that this is not the case.


No, I'd need some sort of device to connect to the phone line and do
the modem bit, then leave the router to route and firewall.

7) If you have purchased your own Domain name, make absolutely sure
that your chosen ADSL provider will allow your 'reply to' address
through their SMTP server - some don't, and others require a
registration procedure which can be quite a hassle; especially BT.


I run my own mail server so all mail delivery is done using MX. That's
also the reason I want a static IP - for those "just in case" moments
where a dynamic IP changing at the wrong moment could cause me to lose
mail.

8) If you buy your own modem, then most ADSL providers' minimum
contract period is just one month.


I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

9) If you decide that AOL is for you, then don't expect a lot of help
from this newsgroup. IMHO the two are mutually exclusive.


Nah, would never go with AOL. Just basic internet provision is fine,
no need for frills.

Thanks again!

Richard
  #10  
Old June 27th 04, 05:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
poster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,542
Default Decisions, decisons!

On 26 Jun 2004, David Bradley wrote:

1) As a brand new customer to BT I am not sure that you can get a line
installed for 'just' 75; it might be as much as 99 + VAT with also a


It went down to 74.99 some time ago prior to other changes to BT Together
accounts, and they changed from charging 50 pounds for BTT users to 74.99
for any users at that time. It is still 99 (+VAT) for business lines but
on the basis this is a simple residential use, then a charge of 74.99 (plus
the rental in advance of course) applies. If the OP goes for monthly billing
with DD then the discount will apply to the rental and they'd probably only
be able to charge one month's line rental so it would be around 85.49 as the
first 'hit'. For pricing, see http://www.serviceview.bt.com/ then see BT
Price List, then Main Contents and it is in section 1, part 2, sub-part 3.

4) Remember that it is "normal" policy to have an ADSL filter for each
piece of equipment hanging off this line.


It might be encouraged but it is quite possible to run several phones and
a variety of caller displays, fax machine and so forth, off extensions in
a single filter at the master socket if that's how you want to do it. In
uk.telecom, Message-ID: , Clive Page
gave his comments on finding some combination of cheap filter and cheap
phone which gave him problems. I have some cheap (1.25 apiece) Ebuyer
filters in use on some extensions and also have an Excelsus Z420UK that
came with one of the ADSL modems. I have lost track of which routers
include filters, but I think the Belkin wireless unit which a friend
bought recently had a Belkin filter with it. He bought some of the
cheap Ebuyer filters for other phones (previously the ADSL service
was on a second line and the main line had needed no filters).

6) Recommendations in this newsgroup about any ADSL provider should be
discounted - there are too many postings on this subject that are not
genuine. Instead, make note of problems existing users are having
with a particular ADSL provider and asked yourself 'do I want to
experience the same sort of aggravation?'


While I quite accept the "are there lots of problems with that ISP"
comment, I find the "discount recommendations" suggestion quite odd.
It seems to me that there's no way I could recommend any ISP without
personal or fairly close experience of it. I'd never recommend Demon
or Pipex, having used neither, but have a number of contacts using a
range of ISPs. Eclipse, Zen, Metronet, PlusNet, FreeUK, to name them.
A friend had been using BT Openworld (since September 2001) but has
now switched, and his work coleague happens to use Pipex but I still
don't know what he thinks of them - the others I do know about, as
they are all clients. I know Eclipse, Zen, Metronet, PlusNet and
others such as Nildram provide fixed IP, something the OP was
after. ADSLguide.org does have a lot of info about ISPs but as
the OP had a shortlist of two, it would seem quite understandable
that users of those might recommend the one they are using, with
any provisos they may have.

7) If you have purchased your own Domain name, make absolutely sure
that your chosen ADSL provider will allow your 'reply to' address
through their SMTP server - some don't, and others require a
registration procedure which can be quite a hassle; especially BT.


As previously mentioned, if the ISP has a strict policy about not wanting
you to use a residential service for any business use, then having your
own domain name and asking about this aspect may cause you some grief!

8) If you buy your own modem, then most ADSL providers' minimum
contract period is just one month.


I think you will be lucky to find a dozen accounts which offer 1 month
contract period and a fixed IP with a fee below 25 pounds a month.

ISPs seem not to care if you do have your own hardware - it strikes me
that many have little flexibility to accommodate someone with kit, and
most seem to have that dreaded 12 mth contract (or a penalty/admin fee
to close the account early). Peter M.
 




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