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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BB Router that supports loopback !! ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 13th 04, 06:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
TomT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

Does anyone know of a cheap ADSL 4 port modem router that supports local
loopback. ??

ie..

Router Internal IP: 10.0.0.1
Router WAN IP: 195.265.254.125 (made up)

If I enter the WAN IP address in my browser, I should see the sites that
I'm hosting on my server (port forwarding being setup)

This would happen with local loopback... WITHOUT I would see the routers
web interface !!

Any ideas ?

Thanks
TomT
  #2  
Old July 13th 04, 06:33 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
TomT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:30:44 +0100, Mugwump wrote:

I run a Windows 2003 server, So I can amend the DNS entries to make it
work..

But I would prefer a router that supports loopback..

This will allow be to use various external DNS servers, so I can tell if
the site is really live, not just relaying via my internal DNS / IIS setup
!

I think that makes sense...

Cheers

TomT


Use Hosts files on your internal PCs and access your sites by domain
name.

  #3  
Old July 13th 04, 07:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiny Ramsden
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

TomT wrote:

Does anyone know of a cheap ADSL 4 port modem router that supports local
loopback. ??

ie..

Router Internal IP: 10.0.0.1


Yes, that's the router, but isn't your machine on 10.0.0.2 or some address
set up by the routers dhcp.

If you run winifcfg on Windoze or ifconfg, or route under linux does not
the address on the local LAN work in your browser?

Router WAN IP: 195.265.254.125 (made up)

If I enter the WAN IP address in my browser, I should see the sites that
I'm hosting on my server (port forwarding being setup)


Assuming you have only 1 machine on the LAN as a second could read your
first as a local address.

Are you also considering writing in php for https sites in this as well?

I'am guessing why the localhost address is not sufficient.

I had this problem with a web address in php. I got round this problem by
writing the external address ip rather than the domain name to avoid dns
lookup.

This would happen with local loopback... WITHOUT I would see the routers
web interface !!

Any ideas ?


I hope you have covered these ideas, as I cannot see the point in the
expense of changing your router?


Thanks
TomT


--
Lioncom adsl 4 port router, Nildram adsl running on Redhat 7.3. You can see
and hear me and my pal Joe Longthorne on uktalent.org.
  #5  
Old July 13th 04, 07:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
TomT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:01:51 GMT, wrote:

This explains what it is !

http://www.dyndns.org/support/kb/loo...nnections.html
  #6  
Old July 13th 04, 08:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

In article ,
TomT wrote:
I run a Windows 2003 server, So I can amend the DNS entries to make it
work..

But I would prefer a router that supports loopback..


You are asking for something that isn't called loopback. A loopback
address is a local address for a device, much like 127.0.0.1, which always
refers to the device itself. However you don't want to connect to the
router, you want to connect to the server.

What may work is for you to set up port forwarding on your router to
forward port 80 to your internal address port 80.

Zane.
  #7  
Old July 13th 04, 08:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
TomT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:18:01 +0100, Tiny Ramsden wrote:

OK. !!

The router is 10.0.0.1
My PC is 10.0.0.2
My server is 10.0.0.100

The router is configured to allow port 80 traffic to go to 10.0.0.100

This allows any external traffic to hit my IIS server.
If I enter 10.0.0.100 in my browser I get the default web site.

I have several domain names and dynamic domain names hosted on an IIS
server. Supported using Host headers.

If I enter 10.0.0.1 in my web browser I get the default web interface for
my router.

I have an external IP 1.1.1.1 (made up, just for this purpose)

At my domain name host I have a DNS entry for www. this points to 1.1.1.1

So any one entering the domain name is directed to 1.1.1.1, and host
headers decides which site to show.

This works fine from an external address, but not from a local address, as
the router detects I'm on the LAN side of the network, so it shows the web
interface for the router.

If the router supported IP NAT Loopback, the router would follow the port
forwarding rules and send me to my IIS Server, regardless of whether I was
LAN or WAN Side.

I currently have the DNS on my server configured to sort this out, and I
use my local server for DNS.

But if I make a change to the DNS entries for the domain name at my host,
normally it can take a few hours/days for this to filter across the
internet.

As I have also made the changes on my local DNS, I always see the sites
correctly, without having to wait for the external DNS to update.

I would prefer to see the sites, as they are from the WAN side, so I can
see if any errors have been made in my hosts DNS.

I hope this makes more sense...

So the question is 'Are there any cheap 4 port ADSL Modem Routers' that
support IP NAT Loopback ! ???

Thanks

Tom




TomT wrote:

Does anyone know of a cheap ADSL 4 port modem router that supports local
loopback. ??

ie..

Router Internal IP: 10.0.0.1


Yes, that's the router, but isn't your machine on 10.0.0.2 or some address
set up by the routers dhcp.

If you run winifcfg on Windoze or ifconfg, or route under linux does not
the address on the local LAN work in your browser?

Router WAN IP: 195.265.254.125 (made up)

If I enter the WAN IP address in my browser, I should see the sites that
I'm hosting on my server (port forwarding being setup)


Assuming you have only 1 machine on the LAN as a second could read your
first as a local address.

Are you also considering writing in php for https sites in this as well?

I'am guessing why the localhost address is not sufficient.

I had this problem with a web address in php. I got round this problem by
writing the external address ip rather than the domain name to avoid dns
lookup.

This would happen with local loopback... WITHOUT I would see the routers
web interface !!

Any ideas ?


I hope you have covered these ideas, as I cannot see the point in the
expense of changing your router?


Thanks
TomT

  #8  
Old July 13th 04, 11:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiny Ramsden
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

TomT wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:18:01 +0100, Tiny Ramsden wrote:

OK. !!

The router is 10.0.0.1
My PC is 10.0.0.2
My server is 10.0.0.100

The router is configured to allow port 80 traffic to go to 10.0.0.100

This allows any external traffic to hit my IIS server.
If I enter 10.0.0.100 in my browser I get the default web site.

I have several domain names and dynamic domain names hosted on an IIS
server. Supported using Host headers.

If I enter 10.0.0.1 in my web browser I get the default web interface for
my router.

I have an external IP 1.1.1.1 (made up, just for this purpose)

At my domain name host I have a DNS entry for www. this points to 1.1.1.1

So any one entering the domain name is directed to 1.1.1.1, and host
headers decides which site to show.

This works fine from an external address, but not from a local address, as
the router detects I'm on the LAN side of the network, so it shows the web
interface for the router.

If the router supported IP NAT Loopback, the router would follow the port
forwarding rules and send me to my IIS Server, regardless of whether I was
LAN or WAN Side.

I currently have the DNS on my server configured to sort this out, and I
use my local server for DNS.

But if I make a change to the DNS entries for the domain name at my host,
normally it can take a few hours/days for this to filter across the
internet.

As I have also made the changes on my local DNS, I always see the sites
correctly, without having to wait for the external DNS to update.

I would prefer to see the sites, as they are from the WAN side, so I can
see if any errors have been made in my hosts DNS.

I hope this makes more sense...


I get your point, I overcome this by using an entirely different machine and
a different ip provider to check my sites. I also run different webbrowsers
on each site to. Wouldn't this ensure the dns propagation delays give more
varacity?

Isn't the problem also using NAT rather than a fixed IP address compounding
the issue. Why can't you have a fixed ip address?



So the question is 'Are there any cheap 4 port ADSL Modem Routers' that
support IP NAT Loopback ! ???

Thanks

Tom




TomT wrote:

Does anyone know of a cheap ADSL 4 port modem router that supports local
loopback. ??

ie..

Router Internal IP: 10.0.0.1


Yes, that's the router, but isn't your machine on 10.0.0.2 or some
address set up by the routers dhcp.

If you run winifcfg on Windoze or ifconfg, or route under linux does not
the address on the local LAN work in your browser?

Router WAN IP: 195.265.254.125 (made up)

If I enter the WAN IP address in my browser, I should see the sites that
I'm hosting on my server (port forwarding being setup)


Assuming you have only 1 machine on the LAN as a second could read your
first as a local address.

Are you also considering writing in php for https sites in this as well?

I'am guessing why the localhost address is not sufficient.

I had this problem with a web address in php. I got round this problem by
writing the external address ip rather than the domain name to avoid dns
lookup.

This would happen with local loopback... WITHOUT I would see the routers
web interface !!

Any ideas ?


I hope you have covered these ideas, as I cannot see the point in the
expense of changing your router?


Thanks
TomT


--
Lioncom adsl 4 port router, Nildram adsl running on Redhat 7.3. You can see
and hear me and my pal Joe Longthorne on uktalent.org.
  #9  
Old July 14th 04, 03:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

In article ,
TomT wrote:
You are asking for something that isn't called loopback. A loopback
address is a local address for a device, much like 127.0.0.1, which always
refers to the device itself. However you don't want to connect to the
router, you want to connect to the server.

What may work is for you to set up port forwarding on your router to
forward port 80 to your internal address port 80.


By setting port 80 forwarding to my servers IP, will only work for clients
connecting outside of my Lan.


I see. This is not necessarily how it must work, though it is obviously
how your (and other small) router(s) work.

[...]
A router that support local loopback, will allow you to view the device
running on the IP that port 80 is forwarding to..

ZyXel call this LoopBack, other manufactures may call it something else,
but it has nothing to do with the IP address 127.0.0.1


Interesting. I have not heard this called "loop back" before, though it is
easy to see why it is called that.

For example my Linux box shows the following routing table:

Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
80.6.46.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0
10.9.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1
10.9.1.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth2
127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo
default cpc5-cbly1-4-0- 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0

The "lo" is the "Loopback" address of the server. It is also a router, so
this is an example of 127.0.0.1 being used as the loopback address of a
router. In larger private networks we select a 10.* range for network
device loopback addresses - these are basically internal addresses of the
routers (whether routable from outside public address space or not) as
opposed to the IP addresses of any given interface of the router (which
may be up or down). The "lo" address is always up unless manually shut
down, and is not bound to any physical interface - it is virtual. However
I presume that if you had a port forwarding router with a routable
loopback address, you would be able to connect to that loopback address on
port 80 and perhaps get forwarded to the destination port no matter which
side of the router you connected from. However this loopback address would
by definition be different from the public or private side address of the
router so you would still need a separate hosts file or DNS entry for it
to make it look the same as the public address.

Eg:

loopback
192.168.0.1
Internet ------ router -------HUB-----Server 10.0.0.2
195.1.1.1 10.0.0.1 \------PC 10.0.0.3
public IP private IP

Say you forward 195.1.1.1:80 to 10.0.0.2:80. When 10.0.0.3 connects to
192.168.0.1:80 it may port-forward to 10.0.0.2:80, but then again it may
not - depeding on how the router implements port-forwarding and what rules
it has about packets leaving on the same interface they came in on (risk
of a routing loop).

Zane.
  #10  
Old July 14th 04, 10:32 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
poster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,542
Default BB Router that supports loopback !! ?

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, wrote:

TomT wrote:


I would prefer to see the sites, as they are from the WAN side, so I can
see if any errors have been made in my hosts DNS.


Then store the DNS information outside your LAN, say on www.zoneedit.com
but the amount of time it takes for other cached copies will vary so even
if you can see the details correct, they may still be unavailable to some.

I get your point, I overcome this by using an entirely different machine
and a different ip provider to check my sites.


Same here. 2 connections on ADSL and 1 using ISDN for backup. Peter M.
 




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