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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 29th 04, 04:23 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits

For all those clued-up about ADSL etc. here's a little problem I am
facing with PIPEX ADSL.

I have a business ADSL service with them, with several Static IP
addresses, although at the current time we only use one of them as our
incoming smtp server.
We are now moving offices - just a block away, and therefore on the
same local telephone exchange - and have asked BT to transfer our fax
line, which also has the ADSL service, to our new location. So-far, no
problem for the telephone number transfer. The moment it gets cut from
our old location, it will be activated at our new location.
The problem comes with the ADSL service. So-far, as I understand it,
the ADSL service depends both on the telephone number AND the physical
circuit on which the telephone number is connected at the exchange.
If we get BT to transfer the telephone number from one circuit to
another for voice calls, would the ADSL service also be transferred
automatically? Alas, it appears that NO, this is not the case. BT
tells me that I should speak to my ISP, ie. PIPEX, so get them to
liaise with them to transfer the ADSL service over. In theory, this
could be achieved in 5 minutes, and instantaneously, just like the
voice calls on the BT line.
So there I am, e-mailing PIPEX customer services to explain the above.
Somehow, PIPEX customer services either does not want to listen to my
query, or there is nothing in the knowledgebase that covers this. The
reply I get is as follows:
I would have to cancel our current PIPEX ADSL service - which requires
1 month's notice, and then re-apply for a new ADSL service with them.
Gone are our static IP addresses and new ones would have to be
allocated, re-programmed in our DNS servers etc. etc. But there's
worse! Because you cannot have 2 ADSL services running on the same
telephone number (for obvious reasons), I could not start a new ADSL
service at the new location using our same telephone number since
that's already used by ADSL service at our old location. Never mind
the fact that when BT transfer your telephone number to a new
location, they physically cut the circuit at the old location at the
exchange end.
The result? If we are to use the same telephone number to apply for
ADSL service, we'll have to wait ONE MONTH to have the service
activated. Surely this can't be right!!! This is a business I am
running here! At the rate of around 9,000 emails handled by our SMTP
server per day, that's absolutely ludicrous!
I am hoping that someone at PIPEX with a little more understanding
than the customer service drones reads this and finds a solution.
Surely, if it takes BT 5 minutes, with 5 days's notice, to re-route a
voice call to a new physical circuit using the same telephone number,
it shouldn't be so hard to do the same thing for ADSL!

Either that, or PIPEX is really trying to drive customers away. And
God knows how well I know PIPEX, back from the days of Peter Dawes and
Unipalm. (yes, we're talking 1991 here...)

The clock is ticking...

Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond

  #2  
Old July 29th 04, 04:57 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Sunil Sood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,590
Default Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits

"Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond" wrote in message
om
The problem comes with the ADSL service. So-far, as I understand it,
the ADSL service depends both on the telephone number AND the physical
circuit on which the telephone number is connected at the exchange.
If we get BT to transfer the telephone number from one circuit to
another for voice calls, would the ADSL service also be transferred
automatically? Alas, it appears that NO, this is not the case.


This is true..


BT
tells me that I should speak to my ISP, ie. PIPEX, so get them to
liaise with them to transfer the ADSL service over. In theory, this
could be achieved in 5 minutes, and instantaneously, just like the
voice calls on the BT line.


This is not true. It would take a minimum of a couple of days at a minimum

The new telephone circuit will need BT to attach ADSL equipment to it at the
exchange (and you paying a new activation fee, if relevant)

Normally, this process takes a couple of weeks - first BT's records have to
update themselves that ADSL is no longer active on that particular telephone
number (the service having being ceased when transfered) - also BT tend to
disconnect the voice line remotely but as the ADSL side has to be
disconnected manually, it is often "active" for a few days after being
officially disconnected at the old location.

Only then the new order be placed and provisioned.

Each of these 2 steps normally takes about a week.

However, your ISP can bypass the 1st step by placing a "manual order" with
BT immediately after the line is transferred - this bypasses the automated
BT system and means your order can go ahead to the "provisoning" stage -
thus reducing the period to a few days.. an ISP simply places a note on the
"manual order" explaining what has happened (i.e. customer moved location,
transferred number, adsl was active on the old line etc so automated system
inaccurate etc)

I would have to cancel our current PIPEX ADSL service - which requires
1 month's notice, and then re-apply for a new ADSL service with them.
Gone are our static IP addresses and new ones would have to be
allocated, re-programmed in our DNS servers etc. etc.


All of this paragraph is due to your ISP's policy's and systems - nothing to
do with BT.

If Pipex insist n you losing your static IP addresses etc - perhaps its time
to consider a new ISP for your new office.

Some (A&A come to mind) will arrange for BT to install a new line and have
ADSL "active" on it the same day - as they are taking part in a BT trial
(other ISP's may also be)

The fact you are transferring numbers - may complicate matters slightly (it
may not!).. you would need to ask them.

Regards
Sunil


  #3  
Old July 29th 04, 07:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
David Bradley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 329
Default Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 03:57:03 +0100, "Sunil Sood"
wrote:

[snip]
It can't be an isolated incidence for a business to move within a
geographically area where previous telephone numbers can be re-used.

For small businesses it is quite common to use a fax line for the ADSL
service with an ISDN feed into a switch. You move down the road, or
next door, and can find that on the day of the move your telephone
services move with you.

So despite all the fine words posted in this thread the question has
to be asked why, with sufficient notice, your ADSL service can't move
at the same time?

A few heads need to be banged together on this one to remove all the
reasons why I can't be done. Being without an ADSL service for more
than a day because of a move is totally unacceptable.

David Bradley

  #4  
Old July 29th 04, 10:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Dominic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 149
Default Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits

Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:
For all those clued-up about ADSL etc. here's a little problem I am
facing with PIPEX ADSL.

I have a business ADSL service with them, with several Static IP
addresses, although at the current time we only use one of them as our
incoming smtp server.
We are now moving offices - just a block away, and therefore on the
same local telephone exchange - and have asked BT to transfer our fax
line, which also has the ADSL service, to our new location. So-far, no

snip
I would have to cancel our current PIPEX ADSL service - which requires
1 month's notice, and then re-apply for a new ADSL service with them.
Gone are our static IP addresses and new ones would have to be
allocated, re-programmed in our DNS servers etc. etc. But there's
worse! Because you cannot have 2 ADSL services running on the same
telephone number (for obvious reasons), I could not start a new ADSL
service at the new location using our same telephone number since
that's already used by ADSL service at our old location. Never mind
the fact that when BT transfer your telephone number to a new
location, they physically cut the circuit at the old location at the
exchange end.
The result? If we are to use the same telephone number to apply for
ADSL service, we'll have to wait ONE MONTH to have the service
activated. Surely this can't be right!!! This is a business I am
running here! At the rate of around 9,000 emails handled by our SMTP
server per day, that's absolutely ludicrous!

snip

It should be noted that ADSL is not a guaranteed service, and if your
internet connection requirements are mission-critical, it is probably not
the best service for you. I would suggest that, if you are handling 9,000
business e-mails a day, you need something in addition to an ADSL line for
your SMTP server. That said, one month for a service to be activated is a
very long time; an order could be pushed through on the line and activated
in 7 days. There is also no reason (other than your ISPs decision) why you
shouldn't be able to keep your IP range.

In your situtation, the best thing to do would be to start making provisions
for alternative internet access while the ADSL is moved. Sadly, you aren't
going to get your ADSL moved over in 5 minutes

Dominic


  #5  
Old July 31st 04, 09:53 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham Murray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 207
Default Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits

"Sunil Sood" writes:

This is not true. It would take a minimum of a couple of days at a minimum

The new telephone circuit will need BT to attach ADSL equipment to it at the
exchange (and you paying a new activation fee, if relevant)

Normally, this process takes a couple of weeks


Why does it have to take so long? Is it not 'simply' a case of an
engineer going to the MDF in the exchange, disconnecting the
connection (cable) to the DSLAM from the existing pair and
reconnecting it to the new pair? While this may take more than 5mins,
surely BT should be able to schedule it? Is it (physically) any
different from what would have to happen if there is a fault in the
cable between the exchange and the cabinet, and to fix it the engineer
moves your line to a different pair? I am sure that it would not take
BT 2 weeks minimum to restore the ADSL in these circumstances.
  #6  
Old July 31st 04, 02:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Stirling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 807
Default Transfer of an ADSL Service when a telephone number is transfered between 2 physical circuits

Graham Murray wrote:
"Sunil Sood" writes:

This is not true. It would take a minimum of a couple of days at a minimum

The new telephone circuit will need BT to attach ADSL equipment to it at the
exchange (and you paying a new activation fee, if relevant)

Normally, this process takes a couple of weeks


Why does it have to take so long? Is it not 'simply' a case of an
engineer going to the MDF in the exchange, disconnecting the
connection (cable) to the DSLAM from the existing pair and
reconnecting it to the new pair? While this may take more than 5mins,


There may not be an engineer physically in the exchange, so one needs to
be scheduled to drive there, and of course if they make it so that the
engineer can do several of these at once at the exchange, by delaying
the order, and batching them, then they need fewer engineers driving
around the country.
 




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