A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 31st 04, 08:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
John Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In this case, the ISP, Plusnet, absolutely insist this 99 cancellation
fee is "non-negotiable" if the customer wishes to cancel. I'm sure there
are other other ISP's who perhaps have the same 'policies'.

Talk about rock and hard place for the customer.... ADSL isn't working
but you have to remain a customer and wait for it to be declared ELF by
BT before you can "apply" for a refund, or you can pay 99 and your ISP
will drop the call with BT and let you out of the contract, but you'll
get no refund because BT haven't declared the service faulty (remember,
you left the contract early ...!)


I can appreciate the problem that you have, it sounds like you've been more
than reasonable in your attempts to get the problem resolved and haven't yet
lost your temper.

I would say of all of the ISP's I've dealt with PlusNet are one of the best
so I'm sure they'll do what they can to help.

I would imagine that Plusnet have paid BT and are now locked into a contract
with BT, you've paid Plusnet and are now locked into a contract with them.
Plusnets side of the servers seems to be working so they're doing everything
correctly so it's going to take pressure from you and plusnet together to
get BT to shift and resolve what would appear to be their problem.

From Plusnets point of view, if they cancel the contract with BT without it
being done in the right way then they'll carry the penalties from BT so I
can understand why they insist on the 99 fee.

I know that Plusnet PR do read these forums quite frequently so I'm sure
that they'll be able to say something to help.
Ian Wild is certainly someone worth talking to although I'm not sure if he's
just PR or customer support.


--
Regards

John Lyons
Netserve Consultants Ltd
http://www.domaincity.co.uk


  #2  
Old August 31st 04, 08:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
MA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

John Lyons wrote:

I can appreciate the problem that you have, it sounds like you've
been more than reasonable in your attempts to get the problem
resolved and haven't yet lost your temper.


I agree. Start going up the management chain. Speak to supervisors and
managers, then work your way up, and keep a note of who you talk to and
when. Don't be put off by attempts by staff not to pass you on to a higher
level because they are not authorised to deal with your cancellation
request. Call Centre staff are normally told not to pass calls to managers
unless they are very insistant.


  #3  
Old August 31st 04, 10:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Sunil Sood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,590
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

"John Lyons" wrote in message

I would imagine that Plusnet have paid BT and are now locked into a
contract with BT, you've paid Plusnet and are now locked into a
contract with them. Plusnets side of the servers seems to be working
so they're doing everything correctly so it's going to take pressure
from you and plusnet together to get BT to shift and resolve what
would appear to be their problem.

From Plusnets point of view, if they cancel the contract with BT
without it being done in the right way then they'll carry the
penalties from BT so I can understand why they insist on the 99 fee.


A customers contract is with the ISP.

The ISP's contract is with BT - they are quite seperate.

BT's contracts with ISP's are on a one month basis - if an ISP chooses to
impose a longer term it is nothing to do with BT Wholesale

The ISP should allow the customer to cancel and then go after BT for the
money/compensation - they should not make the customer wait on BT.

The above is true for all ISP's who deal with BT.

Regards
Sunil


  #4  
Old September 1st 04, 09:04 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 233
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In alt.internet.providers.uk Tx2 wrote:
In article ,
, a.k.a MA says...


I agree. Start going up the management chain. Speak to supervisors and
managers, then work your way up, and keep a note of who you talk to and
when. Don't be put off by attempts by staff not to pass you on to a higher
level because they are not authorised to deal with your cancellation
request. Call Centre staff are normally told not to pass calls to managers
unless they are very insistant.


Unfortunately, Plusnet customer facing staff are the ones who choose to
deal with such complaints (you'll note their presence in this very
newsgroup) and those who actually make or take the decisions are not
customer facing.

Asking to speak with managers (and even Directors) has fallen on deaf
ears.

The only channels that are open to customers is "Contact Us" (a fault
ticket scheme) or the telephone, whereby "Contact us" is updated and
passed to those whom you are not permitted to speak with.

I had this problem. I replied to an E-Mail they sent me but (of course)
the reply went nowhere which I only realised a few days later when I
saw the delivery failure message. As a result my account was suspended
for excessive usage. Since I was paying by Direct Debit I simply stopped
the Direct Debit and although this broke the contract (in theory) they
didn't take any action against me since I suspect they knew they didn't
really have a leg to stand on expecting me to pay them for a service
they had withdrawn.

This is one of the reasons I use Direct Debit wherever possible, it
can be stopped by the customer, unlike a Continuous Authority on a
Credit Card. I have to say this is one of the good things about
PlusNet, they accept payment by Direct Debit.

I'm not particularly anti PlusNet by the way, I would still recommend
them in some cases, but they do need to sort out their T&C and methods
of communication a bit.

--
Chris Green
  #5  
Old September 1st 04, 07:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
John Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

They actually seem to be doing the very opposite and insisting that
despite the ADSL service they are providing being faulty,

But the service that plusnet are providing isn't faulty. Plusnets service
works fine, it's BT's service which is subcontracted which is faulty and I
suspect that the terms and conditions of all ADSL services will all
providers will have a get out clause that passes the buck if it's another
providers fault.

The BT service is totally out of Plusnets control so they can't be expected
to take the wrap for the BT delivery.

Having said the above I would have expected Plusnet to ensure that the
complaint is handled efficiently and ensure that BT fix it or refund the
fees.

out the fault and qualify for a refund under ELF, or they can 'buy'

their way out of the contract at which point they would not get a
refund. Unless Plusnet can categorically state any different, this is
how i, and the affected customer, have interpreted it.

If Plusnet and the customer can prove that the fault is with BT then either
BT will have to fix the fault or refund Plusnet in which case the neither
Plusnet nor the end user will have broken the contracts.

It all assumes that BT are prepared to listen to their customers when they
tell them that there are faults, but it's always possible that the end users
kit or line is at fault and it's nothing to do with BT or Plusnet.

We took three phone calls today from a customer, adamant that our email
servers were down and he couldn't collect his email despite the fact that
we'd proved that his DSL connection was down on the first call, and he'd
accepted that he had no internet access.
Basic principles of No Internet connection = No email download were lost on
him :-)

JL


  #6  
Old September 1st 04, 07:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Old Codger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

"John Lyons" wrote in message

They actually seem to be doing the very opposite and insisting that

despite the ADSL service they are providing being faulty,

But the service that plusnet are providing isn't faulty. Plusnets
service works fine, it's BT's service which is subcontracted which is
faulty and I suspect that the terms and conditions of all ADSL
services will all providers will have a get out clause that passes
the buck if it's another providers fault.

The BT service is totally out of Plusnets control so they can't be
expected to take the wrap for the BT delivery.


The customer's contract is with Plusnet. The customer has no ADSL service.
Plusnet is liable. This is simple contract law which applies to all
suppliers of services and products.

But, IANAL

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]


  #7  
Old September 1st 04, 10:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
John Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

The customer's contract is with Plusnet. The customer has no ADSL
service.
Plusnet is liable. This is simple contract law which applies to all
suppliers of services and products.


Yes there is a contract with Plusnet and from what we know so far Plusnet do
not believe that they have breached their contract terms.

Their terms state....
18.4 We do not have any liability of any sort (including liability for
negligence) for the acts or omissions of other providers of
telecommunication services, or for faults in or failures of their networks
and equipment.

In this respect if there are faults with the BT service but the plusnet
services work then I don't see that Plusnet have breached their contract and
I can understand them asking for the cancellation fees for terminating the
contracts.

I would assume that it is the customers responsibility to demonstrate that
the service does not work and that it is Plusnets fault and it's Plusnets
responsibility to prove that the faults don't fall within their terms and
conditions.

Of course it would be much easier if BT got their finger out and fixed the
fault for the customer.


--
Regards

John Lyons
Netserve Consultants Ltd

Ask us about our online Antivirus and Junk mail scanning service
http://www.domaincity.co.uk


  #8  
Old September 1st 04, 10:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Old Codger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

"John Lyons" wrote in message

The customer's contract is with Plusnet. The customer has no ADSL
service. Plusnet is liable. This is simple contract law which
applies to all suppliers of services and products.


Yes there is a contract with Plusnet and from what we know so far
Plusnet do not believe that they have breached their contract terms.

Their terms state....
18.4 We do not have any liability of any sort (including liability for
negligence) for the acts or omissions of other providers of
telecommunication services, or for faults in or failures of their
networks and equipment.

In this respect if there are faults with the BT service but the
plusnet services work then I don't see that Plusnet have breached
their contract and I can understand them asking for the cancellation
fees for terminating the contracts.


The customer's contract is with Plusnet, not BT. BT will not deal with the
end customer on any aspect of the ADSL service. Plusnet are responsible for
*all* aspects of the supply of the ADSL service, including those parts
supplied by BT. Whatever Plusnet may try to infer they cannot exclude this
responsibility by any standard clause in their terms and conditions. See
the "Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999".

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]


  #9  
Old September 2nd 04, 08:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 233
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In alt.internet.providers.uk John Lyons wrote:
The customer's contract is with Plusnet. The customer has no ADSL

service.
Plusnet is liable. This is simple contract law which applies to all
suppliers of services and products.


Yes there is a contract with Plusnet and from what we know so far Plusnet do
not believe that they have breached their contract terms.

Their terms state....
18.4 We do not have any liability of any sort (including liability for
negligence) for the acts or omissions of other providers of
telecommunication services, or for faults in or failures of their networks
and equipment.

Whether that contract term is actually enforceable is another matter
of course, such a term would certainly not be enforceable for a retail
sale in a shop (or via the internet). Why should an ISP selling a
service to the public be any different?

--
Chris Green
  #10  
Old September 2nd 04, 09:36 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
poster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,542
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

On 2 Sep 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, wrote:

Whether that contract term is actually enforceable is another matter
of course, such a term would certainly not be enforceable for a retail
sale in a shop (or via the internet).


Similar "we cannot guarantee it works 100%" terms have been in place
for pretty much all ISP terms for years. I can understand it up to
a point, though this particular case does seem to be one where BT
should have either done some work on the phone cabling (the problem
seems to be that two neighbours have cabling which is tightly linked
in such a way that one using ADSL prevents the other due to something
like interference, perhaps, but might not have happened if the cable
to one neighbour didn't go via the other's property (don't remember
the exact post and not sure if that adequately describes situation)

Has anyone tried with Trading Standards to say "you are unable to
claim you are not responsible for failures" ? For some kit it is
understandable that alternatives are available. In this case, for
ADSL, there is *no* way to offer a second link from the same phone
line... this is dependent on BT's service. It is a problem right
back at the property/properties and nowhere near the exchane or PN.

 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which PlusNet ADSL service? Tiscali Tim uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 10 February 21st 05 06:27 PM
How can BT tell the # of actual users? Also service levels? [email protected] uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 2 August 12th 04 04:35 PM
How can BT tell the # of actual users? Also service levels? John Naismith uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 August 12th 04 12:16 PM
Change provider Glenn Clark uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 9 November 21st 03 02:10 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2018 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.