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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 31st 04, 10:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tx2 wrote:

When you buy a faulty product in the High St, you generally are
protected by consumer law.

If the product develops a fault, you can expect a refund in the
earlier days, a repair or replacement thereafter.

Given certain criteria, you can reject the goods after a repair if the
goods are still not of a satisfactory quality. You generally have the
same rights as if the goods were new.

Repairs are generally expected to be completed within a reasonable
period AIUI.

Telephone lines can be repaired i suppose, but ADSL can't be replaced
as such. You either have it or you don't.

If it [ADSL] goes wrong, and stays wrong for an *extended* period due
to line faults or other external causes surely you can expect to a)
not have to continue paying for it b) not remain committed to a
service contract when the service isn't actually being provided and
c) as the fault is ongoing for a period which can be considered
reasonably 'excessive' by anyone with respect for common sense, the
the ISP should act reasonably in facilitating a request to cancel
something which at this point in time is not available?

Why is it then that the ISP Plusnet, after approx 3 months of
'providing' an intermittently non-working service (and acknowledged
as faulty by both BT and Plusnet) they feel they cannot cancel a
customer's annual account and refund full costs without penalty to
the customer when the product (in this case ADSL Broadband) has
actually *never* worked correctly?

Plusnet categorically state that the ongoing 3 month old fault must be
shown by BT as being an Early Life Failure (ELF) before they will take
action in consideration of ELF refunds and/or cancellation, and that
should the customer wish to cancel her non-working service, then they
must pay a 99 cancellation fee to Plusnet to do so.

Apparently, this is all in the T&C's, or at least, is covered by them.

In the meantime, they [Plusnet] say that if BT do eventually show the
fault to be ELF, then they will "apply" for a refund from BT, but to
be shown as ELF and qualify for said refund, the customer *must*
continue with the account regardless of whether it is working or not
so that BT can continue to investigate.

BT have already tried to fix the fault (and failed) so does this now
become a repair that can now be rejected as continuing to remain
unsatisfactory, as per other consumer repairs above per se?

The problem is of course, although BT are investigating the fault,
they are also undoubtedly trying to fix it, and as it's likely that
it will or can be fixed at some point, this customer continues to pay
for a service that isn't working because, as there are no SLA's in
force, she is, in essence expected to put up with it. Or pay 99.

As i interpret it, ISP's can expect customers to go without a service
for weeks and weeks, months in this case, and have no recompense
whatsoever simply because no service level actually exists?

In this case, the ISP, Plusnet, absolutely insist this 99
cancellation fee is "non-negotiable" if the customer wishes to
cancel. I'm sure there are other other ISP's who perhaps have the
same 'policies'.

Talk about rock and hard place for the customer.... ADSL isn't working
but you have to remain a customer and wait for it to be declared ELF
by BT before you can "apply" for a refund, or you can pay 99 and
your ISP will drop the call with BT and let you out of the contract,
but you'll get no refund because BT haven't declared the service
faulty (remember, you left the contract early ...!)

If ADSL doesn't work because there is a fault, how long (since there
are no SLA's) should someone have to put up with this?

A week, a month, 3 months, 6 months??

And who is the ADSL contract with, the ISP or BT? Given the criteria
that the customer needs to wait for the outcome from BT, then i'd
interpret it as the ISP is suggesting the contract is not theirs to
honour as it is reliant on BT?

Huh?

Maybe a time for change with regard to SLA's is due, now that ADSL is
so widespread nationally, and so many people now have it?

Maybe, as consumers, we should start insisting ISP's and in particular
the supplier BT offer the consumer some form of service guarantee
instead of "as soon as is reasonably possible" to quote from Plusnet's
own T&C's.

OK, so define "reasonably possible"? A week, a month, 3 months, 6
months??

It's actually as long as it takes it seems, so long as you keep
paying.


I appreciate your frustration. As you imply, if you buy tangible goods from
a shop and they go wrong in their early life, or are dead on arrival, it is
the shop (with whom you have your contract) whose responsibility it is to
sort it out - regardless of whether they can get compensated by their
supplier.

I'm not sure to what extent this applies to internet access provision. Get
advice from Trading Standards. If they confirm your view of life, but
PlusNet won't play ball, sue them in the Small Claims Court.

I hope it doesn't come to that because I believe that PlusNet are a
reasonable outfit - but you sometimes have to get tough to concentrate the
minds. Constantly rehearsing your tale of woe here isn't going to get you
anywhere!
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #2  
Old August 31st 04, 11:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tx2 wrote:


I think the situation so far as SLA's for internet access is concerned
needs addressing, and as such "constantly rehearsing" this issue here
may make those who can make a difference stand up and take notice.


It might if lots of people were having the same problem, and they all
complained here. But this seems to be an isolated incident rather than a
general problem - but we keep hearing the same story time and again.

If you wish to establish a legal point for the benefit of your fellow
consumers, test it in the Small Claims Court. A court ruling in your favour
will have a far greater effect on the way in which ISPs behave in future
than will constant whinging from one individual in a newsgroup.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #3  
Old September 1st 04, 06:51 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Paul C. Dickie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In article , Tiscali Tim
writes
I believe that PlusNet are a reasonable outfit


Do you also believe in fairies?

--
Paul
  #4  
Old September 1st 04, 12:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Paul C. Dickie wrote:

In article , Tiscali Tim
writes
I believe that PlusNet are a reasonable outfit


Do you also believe in fairies?


Of course!g

Seriously though, what I meant was that - as a BB ISP - PlusNet are no worse
than any of the others, and better than many. "Reasonable" is not synonymous
with "perfect"!
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #5  
Old September 1st 04, 12:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,alt.internet.providers.uk
poster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,542
Default Plusnet; an example maybe, but a change to service levels is needed?

On 1 Sep 2004, in alt.internet.providers.uk, "Tiscali Tim" wrote:

"Reasonable" is not synonymous with "perfect"!


True. They certainly try to help customers in as friendly a manner as
they can, but there is always room for improvement and their staff are
willing to acknowledge that, unlike some who assume they are perfect!

--
PlusNet http://tinyurl.com/24ymz - I recommend them and save some cash.
 




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