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SNR levels?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 4th 04, 01:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NTL Binary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default SNR levels?

I wonder if someone knowledgeable in ADSL technology could give me
some advice please?

I have been experiencing loss of sync on my ADSL (512/256) for some
time. The period between dropouts would vary between a few minutes
to 4 hours or more.
I raised the problem with my ISP who in turn escalated it to BT who
said there was a fault on my line. A BT engineer called to say the
fault had been corrected a short time ago, and I am monitoring the
situation (OK so far!).

My question regarding SNR levels is that, when I was having
dropouts, the Downstream levels varied hugely from as poor as 8 to
as good as 32dB. Normally it is around 15dB. Attenuation varied
less widely, at around 45 to 55dB. Now that the fault is
(supposedly) fixed, the SNR levels are still showing quite large
variations from minute-to-minute (as reported by my modem/router).
The Upstream levels remain constant.

Is this continual variation of Downstream SNR levels 'normal' for
ADSL or should it be fairly constant? What affects SNR levels?

Many thanks,

Al



  #2  
Old September 4th 04, 07:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Kráftéé
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default SNR levels?

NTL Binary wrote:
I wonder if someone knowledgeable in ADSL technology could give me
some advice please?

I have been experiencing loss of sync on my ADSL (512/256) for some
time. The period between dropouts would vary between a few minutes
to 4 hours or more.
I raised the problem with my ISP who in turn escalated it to BT who
said there was a fault on my line. A BT engineer called to say the
fault had been corrected a short time ago, and I am monitoring the
situation (OK so far!).

My question regarding SNR levels is that, when I was having
dropouts, the Downstream levels varied hugely from as poor as 8 to
as good as 32dB. Normally it is around 15dB. Attenuation varied
less widely, at around 45 to 55dB. Now that the fault is
(supposedly) fixed, the SNR levels are still showing quite large
variations from minute-to-minute (as reported by my modem/router).
The Upstream levels remain constant.

Is this continual variation of Downstream SNR levels 'normal' for
ADSL or should it be fairly constant? What affects SNR levels?

SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but only slowly,
normally getting worse as the evening draws in, but in some cases it can get
better. The way you describe it it is as if it going up & down like a yoyo
which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I wouldn't worry to much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the bell wire (pin 3)
on all your sockets & see if that makes any difference as that can act as an
aerial & pick up all sorts of strange & wonderful things with detriment to
your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've only had the
oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a short time so I may notice
some changes as time goes on...


  #3  
Old September 4th 04, 08:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default SNR levels?


"Kráftéé" wrote in message
...
SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but only slowly,
normally getting worse as the evening draws in, but in some cases it can
get better. The way you describe it it is as if it going up & down like a
yoyo which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I wouldn't worry to
much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the bell wire (pin 3)
on all your sockets & see if that makes any difference as that can act as
an aerial & pick up all sorts of strange & wonderful things with detriment
to your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've only had the
oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a short time so I may notice
some changes as time goes on...

Thanks for your reply - you are correct in saying the SNR is going up and
down constantly (like a yoyo ;-) ) jumping from, say, 9.8 to 15.4 to 27.3
and varying between those limits all the time.

The problem is that I *do* lose the connection (sync) - it is
re-established, usually, very quickly but if I am d/l anything on p2p etc.
it is long enough to stop all transfers which is extremely frustrating.
These disconnects can be as frequent as every few minutes, or as long as 4
hours, averaging out at about 1.5 hours. My ISP has been as helpful as it
can, and BT supposedly fixed a line fault today, but the problem of frequent
disconnections persists.

I am getting so frustrated that I'm ready to ditch ADSL (and BT) and stay
with NTL which, at least here, is rock solid, and has been for some years. I
have been testing ADSL with PlusNet for some months and would prefer to
change to ADSL as my permanent connection for a number of reasons, (no cap,
better upload bandwidth, excellent support, etc.) but the above problem
seems to make this less and less likely. ;-(

Al



  #4  
Old September 4th 04, 09:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default SNR levels?


"Al" wrote in message
...

"Kráftéé" wrote in message
...
SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but only slowly,
normally getting worse as the evening draws in, but in some cases it can
get better. The way you describe it it is as if it going up & down like
a yoyo which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I wouldn't worry to
much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the bell wire (pin
3) on all your sockets & see if that makes any difference as that can act
as an aerial & pick up all sorts of strange & wonderful things with
detriment to your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've only had the
oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a short time so I may
notice some changes as time goes on...

Thanks for your reply - you are correct in saying the SNR is going up and
down constantly (like a yoyo ;-) ) jumping from, say, 9.8 to 15.4 to 27.3
and varying between those limits all the time.

The problem is that I *do* lose the connection (sync) - it is
re-established, usually, very quickly but if I am d/l anything on p2p etc.
it is long enough to stop all transfers which is extremely frustrating.
These disconnects can be as frequent as every few minutes, or as long as 4
hours, averaging out at about 1.5 hours. My ISP has been as helpful as it
can, and BT supposedly fixed a line fault today, but the problem of
frequent disconnections persists.

I am getting so frustrated that I'm ready to ditch ADSL (and BT) and stay
with NTL which, at least here, is rock solid, and has been for some years.
I have been testing ADSL with PlusNet for some months and would prefer to
change to ADSL as my permanent connection for a number of reasons, (no
cap, better upload bandwidth, excellent support, etc.) but the above
problem seems to make this less and less likely. ;-(

Al

Hi Al. I had a similar problem recently and after much messing about trying
to isolate which extension wire could be causing it, I fitted an NTE-2005
Master Face Plate that results in my ADSL connection only "seeing" the noise
on the incoming line and not the noise from the extension wiring. My SNR
varied between 10 and 21db and now it is a solid 32db. Still see a few CRC
errors though.

Rgds
Alec




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  #5  
Old September 4th 04, 09:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NTL Binary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default SNR levels?

"Alec" wrote in message
...

"Al" wrote in message
...

"Kráftéé" wrote in

message
...
SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but only

slowly,
normally getting worse as the evening draws in, but in some

cases it can
get better. The way you describe it it is as if it going up &

down like
a yoyo which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I wouldn't

worry to
much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the bell

wire (pin
3) on all your sockets & see if that makes any difference as

that can act
as an aerial & pick up all sorts of strange & wonderful things

with
detriment to your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've only

had the
oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a short time so

I may
notice some changes as time goes on...

Thanks for your reply - you are correct in saying the SNR is

going up and
down constantly (like a yoyo ;-) ) jumping from, say, 9.8 to

15.4 to 27.3
and varying between those limits all the time.

The problem is that I *do* lose the connection (sync) - it is
re-established, usually, very quickly but if I am d/l anything

on p2p etc.
it is long enough to stop all transfers which is extremely

frustrating.
These disconnects can be as frequent as every few minutes, or

as long as 4
hours, averaging out at about 1.5 hours. My ISP has been as

helpful as it
can, and BT supposedly fixed a line fault today, but the

problem of
frequent disconnections persists.

I am getting so frustrated that I'm ready to ditch ADSL (and

BT) and stay
with NTL which, at least here, is rock solid, and has been for

some years.
I have been testing ADSL with PlusNet for some months and would

prefer to
change to ADSL as my permanent connection for a number of

reasons, (no
cap, better upload bandwidth, excellent support, etc.) but the

above
problem seems to make this less and less likely. ;-(

Al

Hi Al. I had a similar problem recently and after much messing

about trying
to isolate which extension wire could be causing it, I fitted an

NTE-2005
Master Face Plate that results in my ADSL connection only

"seeing" the noise
on the incoming line and not the noise from the extension wiring.

My SNR
varied between 10 and 21db and now it is a solid 32db. Still see

a few CRC
errors though.

Hi Alec

Thanks for that - I will definitely try your suggestion. Are
NTE-2005s readily available?

To be honest, I have thought it *may* be an internal wiring
problem, and like you have done a bit of messing about, but not
solved anything. Does the NTE-2005 replace the standard BT
faceplate? Does any extension wiring after that not affect the SNR?
The master is in the hall and the 'computer room' is upstairs and
so requires a long-ish extension wire.

Regards,

Al


  #6  
Old September 4th 04, 10:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Kráftéé
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default SNR levels?

NTL Binary wrote:
"Alec" wrote in message
...

"Al" wrote in message
...

"Kráftéé" wrote in
message
...
SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but only
slowly, normally getting worse as the evening draws in, but in
some cases it can get better. The way you describe it it is as
if it going up & down like a yoyo which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I wouldn't
worry to much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the bell
wire (pin 3) on all your sockets & see if that makes any
difference as that can act as an aerial & pick up all sorts of
strange & wonderful things with detriment to your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've only
had the oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a short
time so I may notice some changes as time goes on...
Thanks for your reply - you are correct in saying the SNR is
going up and down constantly (like a yoyo ;-) ) jumping from,
say, 9.8 to 15.4 to 27.3 and varying between those limits all the
time.

The problem is that I *do* lose the connection (sync) - it is
re-established, usually, very quickly but if I am d/l anything on
p2p etc. it is long enough to stop all transfers which is
extremely frustrating. These disconnects can be as frequent as
every few minutes, or as long as 4 hours, averaging out at about
1.5 hours. My ISP has been as helpful as it can, and BT
supposedly fixed a line fault today, but the problem of frequent
disconnections persists.

I am getting so frustrated that I'm ready to ditch ADSL (and BT)
and stay with NTL which, at least here, is rock solid, and has
been for some years. I have been testing ADSL with PlusNet for
some months and would prefer to change to ADSL as my permanent
connection for a number of reasons, (no cap, better upload
bandwidth, excellent support, etc.) but the above problem seems
to make this less and less likely. ;-(

Al

Hi Al. I had a similar problem recently and after much messing
about trying to isolate which extension wire could be causing it,
I fitted an NTE-2005 Master Face Plate that results in my ADSL
connection only "seeing" the noise on the incoming line and not
the noise from the extension wiring. My SNR varied between 10 and
21db and now it is a solid 32db. Still see a few CRC errors though.

Hi Alec

Thanks for that - I will definitely try your suggestion. Are
NTE-2005s readily available?

To be honest, I have thought it *may* be an internal wiring
problem, and like you have done a bit of messing about, but not
solved anything. Does the NTE-2005 replace the standard BT
faceplate? Does any extension wiring after that not affect the SNR?
The master is in the hall and the 'computer room' is upstairs and
so requires a long-ish extension wire.

Regards,

Al


Which is why I suggested you disconnect the bell wire in the first place.
If it does make a difference (which it could/should/may as the bell wire
acts as an aeriel) then you have a choice to make but if you don't then you
are still in the dark.

By the way the phones should still ring if you have good filters fitted...


  #7  
Old September 4th 04, 11:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NTL Binary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default SNR levels?

"Kráftéé" wrote in
message
...
NTL Binary wrote:
"Alec" wrote in message
...

"Al" wrote in message
...

"Kráftéé" wrote

in
message

...
SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but

only
slowly, normally getting worse as the evening draws in,

but in
some cases it can get better. The way you describe it it

is as
if it going up & down like a yoyo which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I

wouldn't
worry to much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the

bell
wire (pin 3) on all your sockets & see if that makes any
difference as that can act as an aerial & pick up all

sorts of
strange & wonderful things with detriment to your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've

only
had the oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a

short
time so I may notice some changes as time goes on...
Thanks for your reply - you are correct in saying the SNR

is
going up and down constantly (like a yoyo ;-) ) jumping

from,
say, 9.8 to 15.4 to 27.3 and varying between those limits

all the
time.

The problem is that I *do* lose the connection (sync) - it

is
re-established, usually, very quickly but if I am d/l

anything on
p2p etc. it is long enough to stop all transfers which is
extremely frustrating. These disconnects can be as frequent

as
every few minutes, or as long as 4 hours, averaging out at

about
1.5 hours. My ISP has been as helpful as it can, and BT
supposedly fixed a line fault today, but the problem of

frequent
disconnections persists.

I am getting so frustrated that I'm ready to ditch ADSL

(and BT)
and stay with NTL which, at least here, is rock solid, and

has
been for some years. I have been testing ADSL with PlusNet

for
some months and would prefer to change to ADSL as my

permanent
connection for a number of reasons, (no cap, better upload
bandwidth, excellent support, etc.) but the above problem

seems
to make this less and less likely. ;-(

Al
Hi Al. I had a similar problem recently and after much

messing
about trying to isolate which extension wire could be

causing it,
I fitted an NTE-2005 Master Face Plate that results in my

ADSL
connection only "seeing" the noise on the incoming line and

not
the noise from the extension wiring. My SNR varied between

10 and
21db and now it is a solid 32db. Still see a few CRC errors

though.

Hi Alec

Thanks for that - I will definitely try your suggestion. Are
NTE-2005s readily available?

To be honest, I have thought it *may* be an internal wiring
problem, and like you have done a bit of messing about, but

not
solved anything. Does the NTE-2005 replace the standard BT
faceplate? Does any extension wiring after that not affect

the SNR?
The master is in the hall and the 'computer room' is upstairs

and
so requires a long-ish extension wire.

Regards,

Al


Which is why I suggested you disconnect the bell wire in the

first place.
If it does make a difference (which it could/should/may as the

bell wire
acts as an aeriel) then you have a choice to make but if you

don't then you
are still in the dark.

By the way the phones should still ring if you have good

filters fitted...



Ah - I did check and there is no bell wire connected (only two
wires in the master socket). The connection is currently used for
ADSL only - no phones, extension sockets or other equipment
connected. Just have a micro-filter (good quality one - and I've
tried several) fitted to the BT master socket and an RJ11
extension cable up to the computer - nothing else!

Thanks for your suggestions.

Al





  #8  
Old September 4th 04, 11:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default SNR levels?


"NTL Binary" wrote in message
...
"Alec" wrote in message
...

"Al" wrote in message
...

"Kráftéé" wrote in

message
...
SNR values will/can/normally fluctuate during the day but only

slowly,
normally getting worse as the evening draws in, but in some

cases it can
get better. The way you describe it it is as if it going up &

down like
a yoyo which isn't normal.....

Having said that if you are not losing connection I wouldn't

worry to
much.

A quick 'dirty' check would be for you to disconnect the bell

wire (pin
3) on all your sockets & see if that makes any difference as

that can act
as an aerial & pick up all sorts of strange & wonderful things

with
detriment to your ADSL.

I said normally as for some reason mine doesn't but I've only

had the
oppotunity to play/abuse this DSL service for a short time so

I may
notice some changes as time goes on...
Thanks for your reply - you are correct in saying the SNR is

going up and
down constantly (like a yoyo ;-) ) jumping from, say, 9.8 to

15.4 to 27.3
and varying between those limits all the time.

The problem is that I *do* lose the connection (sync) - it is
re-established, usually, very quickly but if I am d/l anything

on p2p etc.
it is long enough to stop all transfers which is extremely

frustrating.
These disconnects can be as frequent as every few minutes, or

as long as 4
hours, averaging out at about 1.5 hours. My ISP has been as

helpful as it
can, and BT supposedly fixed a line fault today, but the

problem of
frequent disconnections persists.

I am getting so frustrated that I'm ready to ditch ADSL (and

BT) and stay
with NTL which, at least here, is rock solid, and has been for

some years.
I have been testing ADSL with PlusNet for some months and would

prefer to
change to ADSL as my permanent connection for a number of

reasons, (no
cap, better upload bandwidth, excellent support, etc.) but the

above
problem seems to make this less and less likely. ;-(

Al

Hi Al. I had a similar problem recently and after much messing

about trying
to isolate which extension wire could be causing it, I fitted an

NTE-2005
Master Face Plate that results in my ADSL connection only

"seeing" the noise
on the incoming line and not the noise from the extension wiring.

My SNR
varied between 10 and 21db and now it is a solid 32db. Still see

a few CRC
errors though.

Hi Alec

Thanks for that - I will definitely try your suggestion. Are
NTE-2005s readily available?

To be honest, I have thought it *may* be an internal wiring
problem, and like you have done a bit of messing about, but not
solved anything. Does the NTE-2005 replace the standard BT
faceplate? Does any extension wiring after that not affect the SNR?
The master is in the hall and the 'computer room' is upstairs and
so requires a long-ish extension wire.

Regards,

Al

Find it he
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/ca...products_id=90



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  #9  
Old September 4th 04, 11:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Naismith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default SNR levels?

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:14:24 GMT, "NTL Binary"
wrote:


Ah - I did check and there is no bell wire connected (only two
wires in the master socket). The connection is currently used for
ADSL only - no phones, extension sockets or other equipment
connected. Just have a micro-filter (good quality one - and I've
tried several) fitted to the BT master socket and an RJ11
extension cable up to the computer - nothing else!


Ummm why have you got a microfilter fitted if there's no POTS
equipment in use? If the connection is only for ADSL then you don't
need a microfilter - unplug it and see what happens.
--
John Naismith
  #10  
Old September 4th 04, 11:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Old Codger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default SNR levels?

"John Naismith" wrote in message

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:14:24 GMT, "NTL Binary"
wrote:


Ah - I did check and there is no bell wire connected (only two
wires in the master socket). The connection is currently used for
ADSL only - no phones, extension sockets or other equipment
connected. Just have a micro-filter (good quality one - and I've
tried several) fitted to the BT master socket and an RJ11
extension cable up to the computer - nothing else!


Ummm why have you got a microfilter fitted if there's no POTS
equipment in use? If the connection is only for ADSL then you don't
need a microfilter - unplug it and see what happens.


But you will then need a modem cable to connect to the POTS socket.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]


 




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