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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Broadband Troubleshooting Problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 24th 04, 10:27 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jim Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with troubleshooting a problem
with a broadband installation at my dads place.

This is a situation and what I have tried

3 Sockets, 1 BT Master Box – 2 Extensions. Extensions self installed
and wired in to master box via separate wires all extensions work fine
for telephone – all phones ring fine.

- First tried the broadband in one of the extensions, with micro
filters in all lines – no broadband connection
- SO took the PC upstairs to the bedroom (pain) and tried it in the
master socket – still no joy.
- Unscrewed the cover on the master socket and plugged the broadband
modem (speed touch 330) into the test socket – it works fine

I now unplug all phones

Put the master socket back together – try in standard outside socket –
broadband does not work
So I'm thinking – there is problems with the extensions

Disconnect all extension wires inside the master socket – screw
faceplate back into master socket – broadband works

Check connections in both extensions – both wired to BT standard
colour codes.

Reconnect extension 1 – broadband does not work
Disconnect the extension box from the end of wire – so I just have a
piece of wore attached to master socket – broadband does not work

So I'm now thinking – faulty wire……

Repeat that exercise with extension 2 does not work with proper
connections – or with just a wire connected

I cannot believe both pieces of extension wire are broken – could this
be a problem with my master socket??

Also tried my broadband though long extension cable (20m) plugged
into master socket – no extensions connected this works fine.

I'm am at a loss what to try next, Anyone got any other bright ideas?

Thanks in advance

Jim
  #2  
Old September 24th 04, 10:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Smith wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with troubleshooting a problem
with a broadband installation at my dads place.

This is a situation and what I have tried

3 Sockets, 1 BT Master Box - 2 Extensions. Extensions self installed
and wired in to master box via separate wires all extensions work fine
for telephone - all phones ring fine.

- First tried the broadband in one of the extensions, with micro
filters in all lines - no broadband connection
- SO took the PC upstairs to the bedroom (pain) and tried it in the
master socket - still no joy.
- Unscrewed the cover on the master socket and plugged the broadband
modem (speed touch 330) into the test socket - it works fine

I now unplug all phones

Put the master socket back together - try in standard outside socket -
broadband does not work
So I'm thinking - there is problems with the extensions

Disconnect all extension wires inside the master socket - screw
faceplate back into master socket - broadband works

Check connections in both extensions - both wired to BT standard
colour codes.

Reconnect extension 1 - broadband does not work
Disconnect the extension box from the end of wire - so I just have a
piece of wore attached to master socket - broadband does not work

So I'm now thinking - faulty wire..

Repeat that exercise with extension 2 does not work with proper
connections - or with just a wire connected

I cannot believe both pieces of extension wire are broken - could this
be a problem with my master socket??

Also tried my broadband though long extension cable (20m) plugged
into master socket - no extensions connected this works fine.

I'm am at a loss what to try next, Anyone got any other bright ideas?

Thanks in advance

Jim


Do your extension wires run close to anything which could cause inductive pi
ckup?

One solution which *should* work is to replace the faceplate on the master
with a filtered faceplate. Then, all extension wiring will be on the LF side
of the filter, and won't interfere with the HF signal. [If the computer
location is not near to the master socket, you will need a digital extension
for it - which is easier if you use one of Clarity's modified faceplates].
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #3  
Old September 24th 04, 11:38 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
DMG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem


"Tiscali Tim" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Smith wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with troubleshooting a problem
with a broadband installation at my dads place.

This is a situation and what I have tried

3 Sockets, 1 BT Master Box - 2 Extensions. Extensions self installed
and wired in to master box via separate wires all extensions work fine
for telephone - all phones ring fine.

- First tried the broadband in one of the extensions, with micro
filters in all lines - no broadband connection
- SO took the PC upstairs to the bedroom (pain) and tried it in the
master socket - still no joy.
- Unscrewed the cover on the master socket and plugged the broadband
modem (speed touch 330) into the test socket - it works fine

I now unplug all phones

Put the master socket back together - try in standard outside socket -
broadband does not work
So I'm thinking - there is problems with the extensions

Disconnect all extension wires inside the master socket - screw
faceplate back into master socket - broadband works

Check connections in both extensions - both wired to BT standard
colour codes.

Reconnect extension 1 - broadband does not work
Disconnect the extension box from the end of wire - so I just have a
piece of wore attached to master socket - broadband does not work

So I'm now thinking - faulty wire..

Repeat that exercise with extension 2 does not work with proper
connections - or with just a wire connected

I cannot believe both pieces of extension wire are broken - could this
be a problem with my master socket??

Also tried my broadband though long extension cable (20m) plugged
into master socket - no extensions connected this works fine.

I'm am at a loss what to try next, Anyone got any other bright ideas?

Thanks in advance

Jim


Do your extension wires run close to anything which could cause inductive

pi
ckup?

One solution which *should* work is to replace the faceplate on the master
with a filtered faceplate. Then, all extension wiring will be on the LF

side
of the filter, and won't interfere with the HF signal. [If the computer
location is not near to the master socket, you will need a digital

extension
for it - which is easier if you use one of Clarity's modified faceplates].
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


I agree with the above. My extension wiring was so 'noisy' for ADSL
(although perfect for voice) that either the modem/router wouldn't sync or
it took ages to do so and when it did it would frequently lose sync,
sometimes 20 times a day. I went for the Clarity faceplate and I've had
only 1 loss of sync in the last 6 days.


  #4  
Old September 24th 04, 12:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jim Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

Thanks very much for your response Tim,

Extension 1 is the "classic" out of upstairs window into downstairs window,
so doesn't pass anything other than brick and air, extension 2 goes in a
longer route and potentially crosses a few cables and that is it. I have
tried them separately and both fail.

On the face plate front didn't understand what you meant so I did a bit of
googling - found this: http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm

Is this what you mean??

You mention a 'digital extension' do you mean

- a separate wire to the adsl modem extension - separate from the analog
phone cables

- or do I need some sort of special grade cable???

Thanks again for your prompt response

Regards

Jim



"Tiscali Tim" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Smith wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with troubleshooting a problem
with a broadband installation at my dads place.

This is a situation and what I have tried

3 Sockets, 1 BT Master Box - 2 Extensions. Extensions self installed
and wired in to master box via separate wires all extensions work fine
for telephone - all phones ring fine.

- First tried the broadband in one of the extensions, with micro
filters in all lines - no broadband connection
- SO took the PC upstairs to the bedroom (pain) and tried it in the
master socket - still no joy.
- Unscrewed the cover on the master socket and plugged the broadband
modem (speed touch 330) into the test socket - it works fine

I now unplug all phones

Put the master socket back together - try in standard outside socket -
broadband does not work
So I'm thinking - there is problems with the extensions

Disconnect all extension wires inside the master socket - screw
faceplate back into master socket - broadband works

Check connections in both extensions - both wired to BT standard
colour codes.

Reconnect extension 1 - broadband does not work
Disconnect the extension box from the end of wire - so I just have a
piece of wore attached to master socket - broadband does not work

So I'm now thinking - faulty wire..

Repeat that exercise with extension 2 does not work with proper
connections - or with just a wire connected

I cannot believe both pieces of extension wire are broken - could this
be a problem with my master socket??

Also tried my broadband though long extension cable (20m) plugged
into master socket - no extensions connected this works fine.

I'm am at a loss what to try next, Anyone got any other bright ideas?

Thanks in advance

Jim


Do your extension wires run close to anything which could cause inductive
pi
ckup?

One solution which *should* work is to replace the faceplate on the master
with a filtered faceplate. Then, all extension wiring will be on the LF
side
of the filter, and won't interfere with the HF signal. [If the computer
location is not near to the master socket, you will need a digital
extension
for it - which is easier if you use one of Clarity's modified faceplates].
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.




  #5  
Old September 24th 04, 01:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Smith wrote:

Thanks very much for your response Tim,

Extension 1 is the "classic" out of upstairs window into downstairs
window, so doesn't pass anything other than brick and air, extension
2 goes in a longer route and potentially crosses a few cables and
that is it. I have tried them separately and both fail.

On the face plate front didn't understand what you meant so I did a
bit of googling - found this:
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm

Is this what you mean??


Yes, that's the one!


You mention a 'digital extension' do you mean

- a separate wire to the adsl modem extension - separate from the
analog phone cables

- or do I need some sort of special grade cable???


A filtered faceplate has two outlets - a filtered one for phones and an
unfiltered one ("digital" - connected directly to the incoming pair) for
ADSL. A digital extension needs a twisted pair cable to connect from the
ADSL outlet to a socket in a convenient location for your ADSL modem. You
can use one of the pairs in a normal telephone cable or, even better, CAT5
cable. The modified Clarity faceplate has the advantage of having 2
connectors on the *back* into which these 2 wires can be Kroned - rather
than having to have the extension cable plugged into the front - so it's
neater, and you don't have to work out how to fit an RJ11 plug on the end of
your cable!

If one of your existing extension sockets is in more or less the right
place, you *could* use a spare pair - is there is one - in one of your
existing extension cables. However, in the light of the problems you have
reported, I think I would use a separate cable - and maybe take a different
route. You will need an RJ11 outlet socket at the remote end of your digital
extension - with the 2 wires connected to the middle two conductors of the
six.

--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #6  
Old September 24th 04, 01:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Michael Chare
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

"Jim Smith" wrote in message
om...

Try removing master socket face plate. Plug filter into master, plug ADSL modem
into filter, plug face plate into filter (perhaps using a splitter or extension
lead so that you can connect both ADSL modem and faceplate at the same time)

If both modem and phones work it will show that your extension wiring is somehow
causing more attenuation or loss of SNR. In that case a face plate with built
in filter is a more elegant solution.

I dont think you can get line stats from a Speedtouch 330, but doing the above
in my house with a Speedtouch 510 router the attenuation reduces from about 60
to 59 dB and the Noise Margin increases from about 14 to 22 dB when compared to
running the modem off an extension socket.


Michael Chare




  #7  
Old September 24th 04, 05:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jim Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

Michaels Cares method worked - which gives me a little more confidence that
I can resolve this. I now have to find out if the adsl modem will work on a
30 metre cable

I plan to:

- Buy a faceplate - with built in filter
- Lay a separate cat 5 cable for the computer room - which will carry ADSL
unfiltered wires down two wires and analogue filtered wires down another 4
(3 really)
- put a dual RJ11/BT Phone socket in the computer room - on the end of the
cat 5
- Connect original extensions to filtered wires on new faceplate

I'll let you know how it goes

Thanks for all your help

Jim


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
"Jim Smith" wrote in message
om...

Try removing master socket face plate. Plug filter into master, plug ADSL
modem
into filter, plug face plate into filter (perhaps using a splitter or
extension
lead so that you can connect both ADSL modem and faceplate at the same
time)

If both modem and phones work it will show that your extension wiring is
somehow
causing more attenuation or loss of SNR. In that case a face plate with
built
in filter is a more elegant solution.

I dont think you can get line stats from a Speedtouch 330, but doing the
above
in my house with a Speedtouch 510 router the attenuation reduces from
about 60
to 59 dB and the Noise Margin increases from about 14 to 22 dB when
compared to
running the modem off an extension socket.


Michael Chare






  #8  
Old September 24th 04, 06:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Smith wrote:

Michaels Cares method worked - which gives me a little more
confidence that I can resolve this. I now have to find out if the
adsl modem will work on a 30 metre cable

I plan to:

- Buy a faceplate - with built in filter
- Lay a separate cat 5 cable for the computer room - which will carry
ADSL unfiltered wires down two wires and analogue filtered wires down
another 4 (3 really)
- put a dual RJ11/BT Phone socket in the computer room - on the end
of the cat 5
- Connect original extensions to filtered wires on new faceplate

I'll let you know how it goes

Thanks for all your help

Jim



That's got a *very* good chance of working. Make sure you use one *pair* for
the digital extension and another pair for voice pins 2 and 5. It doesn't
matter which wire you use for voice pin 3 (bell).

[Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted - but a pair is two wires of the
same, but reversed colours - e.g. blue with white marker + white with blue
marker. These are twisted together all along the length of the cable to
cancel out any noise pickup. the cables you use will probably have 3 pairs -
blue, orange and green.]
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #9  
Old September 25th 04, 12:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Meurig Freeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem


That's got a *very* good chance of working. Make sure you use one *pair* for
the digital extension and another pair for voice pins 2 and 5. It doesn't
matter which wire you use for voice pin 3 (bell).

[Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted - but a pair is two wires of the
same, but reversed colours - e.g. blue with white marker + white with blue
marker. These are twisted together all along the length of the cable to
cancel out any noise pickup. the cables you use will probably have 3 pairs -
blue, orange and green.]


Actually cat5 has 4 pairs - blue, orange, green and brown. Usually you
don't get the white markers on the solid colours either, though this may
depend on the cable you use.
  #10  
Old September 25th 04, 02:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Broadband Troubleshooting Problem

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Meurig Freeman wrote:

That's got a *very* good chance of working. Make sure you use one
*pair* for the digital extension and another pair for voice pins 2
and 5. It doesn't matter which wire you use for voice pin 3 (bell).

[Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted - but a pair is two wires
of the same, but reversed colours - e.g. blue with white marker +
white with blue marker. These are twisted together all along the
length of the cable to cancel out any noise pickup. the cables you
use will probably have 3 pairs - blue, orange and green.]


Actually cat5 has 4 pairs - blue, orange, green and brown. Usually
you don't get the white markers on the solid colours either, though
this may depend on the cable you use.



Fair point. Thanks for the additional clarification - I was thinking of
ordinary phone cable when I wrote that, even though I may have mentioned
CAT5 earlier.
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


 




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