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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Intermittent synch problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 13th 04, 09:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Gareth
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Posts: 75
Default Intermittent synch problem

I've had an intermittent synch loss problem for over a month.

A line fault was initially identified and fixed (corroded terminals on an
outside line box which still looks to be in awful shape and is I suspect the
source of the continuing problem). The problem then persisted but the synch
loss was less - sometimes connecting for up to 30 hours without loss (which
is better then the pre repair connection of 30 minutes).

An ISP "woosh test" then identified a "copper line failure" (probable "earth
fault"). A subsequent "woosh test" identified "inconclusive" results.

BT was finally called to investigate by the ISP but they closed the fault
without even visiting the premises because they couldn't, I assume,
*remotely* identify a line fault. The upshot is that BT seems to regard any
connection in excess of 10 hours or so as successful ADSL.

So basically it seems I'm buggered - neither my ISP nor BT is geared up to
grasp the basic concept of an intermittent as opposed to a constant line
fault.

I've bought 2 new telephones, a new Netgear modem power supply, used 4
filters (bought 3 new ones including an ADSL Nation filter and an expensive
PC World filter) and even borrowed a new modem and still the synch loss
persists.

Can anyone suggest an approach to persuade investigation of an intermittent
synch loss problem?

I just know - with near 100% certainty - this problem is connected with
faulty wiring in an old outside line box but I just can't prove it!

Gareth.


  #2  
Old December 13th 04, 11:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ed Start
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Posts: 48
Default Intermittent synch problem


"Gareth" wrote in message
...
"Can anyone suggest an approach to persuade investigation of an intermittent
synch loss problem?"

Keep re-reporting the fault. From a BT point of view it will become a
(multiple) repeat report and this upsets the stats.

"I just know - with near 100% certainty - this problem is connected with
faulty wiring in an old outside line box"

I would not bank on that one bit. Whilst it's possible for an intermittent
earth fault to appear in external line plant (usually accompanied by rain)
it's just as likely to be on a piece of internal equipment like a modem
found in (1) an alarm panel (sky/set to box) or even ratty extension wiring.
Be sure it's none of that unless you want to pay BT 120ish quid for
visiting you this Christmas......






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  #3  
Old December 14th 04, 07:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
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Posts: 1,463
Default Intermittent synch problem

Have all your tests been direct into the test socket with no other equipment
or wiring connected. If not you have not eliminated the inside wiring from
the possibility.

Peter Crosland


  #4  
Old December 14th 04, 09:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Gareth
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Posts: 75
Default Intermittent synch problem


"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
Have all your tests been direct into the test socket with no other
equipment or wiring connected. If not you have not eliminated the inside
wiring from the possibility.


Thanks Ed and Peter.

There is no internal wiring other than 1 internal master socket connected to
the outside line box by about 8 feet or so of wire.

I've been told that the test socket is behind the face plate of the master
socket but as there's nothing else plugged in to the master socket there
surely wouldn't be a need to use the test socket?

The lack of recent rain coincides with the near disappearance of the
problem.

Oh well, with 120 or so at risk I'll continue to wait for another (almost
certain) reappearance of the problem ;-)

Gareth.


  #5  
Old December 14th 04, 10:31 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
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Posts: 1,463
Default Intermittent synch problem

Well I had a similar problem and eventually proved that it was the removable
faceplate at fault. Also BT will in theory only test as far as the test
socket. By the way what is the problem if the connection drops occasionally?
I can see the problem if it only lasts half an hour but 30 plus hours?


--
Peter Crosland


  #6  
Old December 14th 04, 11:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
DB.
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Posts: 32
Default Intermittent synch problem

Peter Crosland wrote:
Have all your tests been direct into the test socket with no other
equipment or wiring connected. If not you have not eliminated the
inside wiring from the possibility.

Peter Crosland



I get intermittent synch loss. I can recover it immediately if I pick
up the adjacent phone and key in a number (any number) or start to dial
out on my emergency PAYG connection. Does that point to the cause of
the problem?

--
DB.


  #7  
Old December 15th 04, 10:29 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ed Start
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Posts: 48
Default Intermittent synch problem

SNIP

There is an easy way to deal with this. First of all forget about the synch
loss on the DSL. The next time it starts to happen (around the time of the
next rain) unplug EVERYTHING apart from a vanilla phone and call BT faults.
Report the line as noisy. The easiest way to do this is from the BT web site
(At home/faults). This gives you an instant job number (XXXXXXXX) and a
'promise' appointment. If the line has an earth fault is is usually
accomponied by a hum in the background, but not always. If this earth fault
is cleared then your dsl fault will go away ;-)

You never said if you were overhead or underground fed to you home. A common
fault causing earth and noise (and dsl sync loss) is often on the end of the
underground cable where it meets the lead in. Typically this will be in a
grey box or cover at about calf height on the house. Some of the cables used
in the past (most notably the dry armoured cables) allow moisture in and rot
in the butt. The cure is often to strip back 3-4 inches and reterminate.

Hope this helps, just attack it a different way. Report the line as faulty
for voice. If the engineer should ask tell him/her you get a intermittent
hum on the line when it rains AND that it knocks out your DSL. That will
yield you better results in getting it fixed ;-)





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  #8  
Old December 15th 04, 06:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
kraftee
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Posts: 1,069
Default Intermittent synch problem

Ed Start wrote:
SNIP

There is an easy way to deal with this. First of all forget about the
synch loss on the DSL. The next time it starts to happen (around the
time of the next rain) unplug EVERYTHING apart from a vanilla phone
and call BT faults. Report the line as noisy. The easiest way to do
this is from the BT web site (At home/faults). This gives you an
instant job number (XXXXXXXX) and a 'promise' appointment. If the
line has an earth fault is is usually accomponied by a hum in the
background, but not always. If this earth fault is cleared then your
dsl fault will go away ;-)


Be nice if this was true but go on anyway.....

You never said if you were overhead or underground fed to you home. A
common fault causing earth and noise (and dsl sync loss) is often on
the end of the underground cable where it meets the lead in.
Typically this will be in a grey box or cover at about calf height on
the house. Some of the cables used in the past (most notably the dry
armoured cables) allow moisture in and rot in the butt. The cure is
often to strip back 3-4 inches and reterminate.


True, but 3-4 inches goes below ground level .....

Hope this helps, just attack it a different way. Report the line as
faulty for voice. If the engineer should ask tell him/her you get a
intermittent hum on the line when it rains AND that it knocks out
your DSL. That will yield you better results in getting it fixed ;-)


If only, if only.................

If it is a cable pair fault, the chances are all that will happen is that it
will be swapped, this often will be onto another pair with other problems
associated with it(experience has shown this to be normally SNR problems).
Remember if one pair in a cable is faulty, how long before more go the same
way, until the whole cable is blown (or should I say joint is full of
water). If they swap it on the Eside then you can get put onto another
cable with far higher line losses than you originally have.

The ONLY way to get this deffinitely cured, is to keep plugging at the ISP
to keep getting a ADSL engineer to site so that the line is fully tested,
not just electronically (battery/earth./low etc...). The ADSL engineers
will eventually get the message, as the repeat faults will cost them money
(last time I bothered to check it's 15 but I gave up keeping track a long
time ago & have the attitude that a job takes as long as job takes, one
recent one took 3 days, knew what it was on day one, just took the rest of
the time to convince the powers that be to get the DSL card changed).


  #9  
Old December 15th 04, 06:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ed Start
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Posts: 48
Default Intermittent synch problem


"kraftee" wrote in message
...
Ed Start wrote:
SNIP

" True, but 3-4 inches goes below ground level ....."
Plants not good on your patch then.... Most are 18'' out of the ground in
capping, but I guess you know better ;-)

" If it is a cable pair fault, the chances are all that will happen is that
it will be swapped"

Fortunately not all BT engineers work to the FRS 'lets grab the points and
bollux to the customer' pair swapping method you clearly know well. Some
actually get in roadway boxes and fix faults, uplifting joints and bringing
the network up to standard. Others, as you clearly know, swap and run and
really need sacking.

The fault sympon described localises the fault to around the area of the
66/101 if UG, this is somewhat supported by the lack of other local
complaints.

To drag out an adsl engineer in his white 'I'm not going to get dirty'
gloves is a hiding to nothing. If it's not a socket or a piece of six wire
they just charge and run.

If I were in this guys shoes I get the intermittent earth fault dealt with.
There is a slim chance it's on the E side, but from what the OP is saying
it's closer to home.





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  #10  
Old December 15th 04, 08:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
kraftee
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Posts: 1,069
Default Intermittent synch problem

Ed Start wrote:
"kraftee" wrote in message
...
Ed Start wrote:
SNIP

The fault sympon described localises the fault to around the area of
the 66/101 if UG, this is somewhat supported by the lack of other
local complaints.

To drag out an adsl engineer in his white 'I'm not going to get dirty'
gloves is a hiding to nothing. If it's not a socket or a piece of six
wire they just charge and run.


You obviously DON'T know the majority of the ADSL engineers on my patch
(mind you you have got a couple to a tee with your discription, you did
forget the afternoons spent in the pub bit though), most of them are UG
skilled & if not do ask for UG assists if & when required.

The bigggest problem is when you go into the pristine office off a large
conglomerate to fix/install an ADSL circuit after spending the last 5 hours
up to your knees in black mud down some manhole/cable box fixing the
previouse one............

If the ADSL engineer does his job properly & if there is an earth fault
there is no excuse but to deal with it, or get help to deal with it & with
the newer testers being as accurate (in the main) as they are there is no
excuse to miss something as fundamental as an earth fault, if indeed there
is one & the problem is not induction being caused by something else.


 




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