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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Contention???



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 7th 05, 11:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PeteIvy
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Posts: 4
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Hi guys

Well I've been with Central Point for 4 months (I think) on a 1m line. All
of a sudden, the speeds have dropped from pretty much 1002Kbps every time to
just under 300Kbps. Sent a few tickets and have been told that its down to
contention. I am currently on a 50:1 contention ratio but has had absolutely
no effect on the line over the last few months. Every time I did the speed
test on www.adslguide.org and has barely changed over the last four months.
Could it really have that much of an effect??


Unhappy and going really slowly

Pete



  #2  
Old January 8th 05, 09:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil Thompson
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Posts: 2,720
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On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:40:56 -0000, "PeteIvy"
wrote:

Could it really have that much of an effect??


yes. This is a Datastream service I believe, so CPBB have a connection
(via Telefonica ?) to your exchange over which your service is
provided. This might be a 2M connection, perhaps you were an early
bird and one of the few on it, now it is filling up and there might be
10 of you 1M users sharing that pipe (and maybe 30 512k users) so it
would only need 6 of you to be running a download to pull the speed
down to 300k or so.

Phil
--
Splenda - the only sweetener made from chlorine :-)
  #3  
Old January 8th 05, 10:08 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jeff Gaines
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Posts: 107
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On 08/01/2005 Phil Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:40:56 -0000, "PeteIvy"
wrote:

Could it really have that much of an effect??


yes. This is a Datastream service I believe, so CPBB have a connection
(via Telefonica ?) to your exchange over which your service is
provided. This might be a 2M connection, perhaps you were an early
bird and one of the few on it, now it is filling up and there might be
10 of you 1M users sharing that pipe (and maybe 30 512k users) so it
would only need 6 of you to be running a download to pull the speed
down to 300k or so.

Phil



This is probably a naive question but...

When the majority of people have BB and are using it most of the time
will we all be back down to dial up speeds or doesn't it work like that?


--
Jeff Gaines
Posted with XanaNews 1.17.1.2 http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/delphi.htm
  #4  
Old January 8th 05, 10:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil Thompson
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Posts: 2,720
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On 8 Jan 2005 10:08:21 GMT, "Jeff Gaines"
wrote:

When the majority of people have BB and are using it most of the time
will we all be back down to dial up speeds or doesn't it work like that?


its all down to the management of it. BT's IPstream products for home
use have an advertised contention of 50:1 but are thought to be more
like 15:1 in practice. They have the advantage of many more customers
so the statisitics work better - if you have a 10M pipe the chances of
enough customers going full tilt at the same time to fill it are
small. If you have a small datastream pipe each customer is a bigger
proportion so filling it up is more likely.

I think the internal standard is minimum 100k on a IPstream500
service, below that and action is taken to make the pipe bigger,
allegedly.

Phil
--
Splenda - the only sweetener made from chlorine :-)
  #5  
Old January 8th 05, 11:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jeff Gaines
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Posts: 107
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On 08/01/2005 Phil Thompson wrote:

On 8 Jan 2005 10:08:21 GMT, "Jeff Gaines"
wrote:

When the majority of people have BB and are using it most of the
time will we all be back down to dial up speeds or doesn't it work
like that?


its all down to the management of it. BT's IPstream products for home
use have an advertised contention of 50:1 but are thought to be more
like 15:1 in practice. They have the advantage of many more customers
so the statisitics work better - if you have a 10M pipe the chances of
enough customers going full tilt at the same time to fill it are
small. If you have a small datastream pipe each customer is a bigger
proportion so filling it up is more likely.

I think the internal standard is minimum 100k on a IPstream500
service, below that and action is taken to make the pipe bigger,
allegedly.

Phil



Many thanks, that's encouraging.

Having waited three years for BB to arrive (it's due next Wednesday) I
had visions of the whole village tuning in to streaming TV or something
similar and leaving me with a slower connection than I have currently.


--
Jeff Gaines
Posted with XanaNews 1.17.1.2 http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/delphi.htm
  #6  
Old January 8th 05, 12:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PeteIvy
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Posts: 4
Default Contention???


"Phil Thompson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:40:56 -0000, "PeteIvy"
wrote:

Could it really have that much of an effect??


yes. This is a Datastream service I believe, so CPBB have a connection
(via Telefonica ?) to your exchange over which your service is
provided. This might be a 2M connection, perhaps you were an early
bird and one of the few on it, now it is filling up and there might be
10 of you 1M users sharing that pipe (and maybe 30 512k users) so it
would only need 6 of you to be running a download to pull the speed
down to 300k or so.

Phil
--



Well I live in a village that has not long discovered electricity, let alone
broadband. We got switched on about August/Sept time. I've had no speed
problems whatsoever since we've been up and running. Did a speed test last
night. 1am and got a fantastic speed of 197Kbps and just done one a few
minutes ago and its 553Kbps.

So I'm not really clued up on this contention thing. I take it it would
change if I moved to another ISP? Os is the contention set by the ISP
themselves?

TIA

Pete



  #7  
Old January 8th 05, 01:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PeteIvy
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Posts: 4
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WOW

Just did a speedtest and got this. I wish!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/6onfd



  #8  
Old January 8th 05, 02:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter M
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Posts: 1,496
Default Contention???

On 8 Jan 2005 in uk.telecom.broadband, "PeteIvy" wrote:

So I'm not really clued up on this contention thing. I take it it would
change if I moved to another ISP? Os is the contention set by the ISP
themselves?


As Phil has indicated, while contention is likely to be present to an
extent for all connections, there's a difference in implementation and
when you have an IPstream service (the majority of ADSL services) then
there willbe contention of usually more users in a bigger pipe and low
effect on individuals while Datastream services allow the ISP to buy a
connection from each exchange and the size of that, and number of your
local users will have a more noticeable effect. I use Tiscali's net,
but have service from a different ISP (which buys from Tiscali) and I
have found no significant problems (my one concern is number of hops
made within the UK). http://makeashorterlink.com/?B20D1203A shows
the results of the checker you used, while the checker on ADSLguide
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K14D2103A shows about the same. PGM




--
PlusNet http://tinyurl.com/24ymz - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network http://www.ukfsn.org
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.
  #9  
Old January 8th 05, 03:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil Thompson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,720
Default Contention???

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:50:52 -0000, "PeteIvy"
wrote:

So I'm not really clued up on this contention thing. I take it it would
change if I moved to another ISP? Os is the contention set by the ISP
themselves?


two types of product - IPStream and Datastream. Former is managed by
BT from you to the ISP. Latter is managed by ISP from your exchange.

In the datastream case then different ISPs may give different
contentions on the exchange link. With IPstream all the ISPs will see
the same contention for a given exchange up to BT's "cloud".

Another level of contention can arise between BT's "cloud" and the
ISP, depending how many users they cram onto a "Central" link and how
busy those users are. Hence the Plusnet "bad boys pipe" where a select
few very heavy users are on one pipe contending with each other.

The whole internet is a contended network, bit like the roads. So the
speed you see can be limited by your link to the exchange, the
exchange to BT, ISP link to BT, ISP out to net, internet traffic and
contention for an individual server on the net.

Exchange IPStream contention / VP status can be found on
www.samknows.com or somewhere on Plusnet's usertools site.

Phil
--
Splenda - the only sweetener made from chlorine :-)
  #10  
Old January 8th 05, 11:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick Mortimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Contention???


"Phil Thompson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:50:52 -0000, "PeteIvy"
wrote:

So I'm not really clued up on this contention thing. I take it it would
change if I moved to another ISP? Os is the contention set by the ISP
themselves?


two types of product - IPStream and Datastream. Former is managed by
BT from you to the ISP. Latter is managed by ISP from your exchange.

In the datastream case then different ISPs may give different
contentions on the exchange link. With IPstream all the ISPs will see
the same contention for a given exchange up to BT's "cloud".

Another level of contention can arise between BT's "cloud" and the
ISP, depending how many users they cram onto a "Central" link and how
busy those users are. Hence the Plusnet "bad boys pipe" where a select
few very heavy users are on one pipe contending with each other.

The whole internet is a contended network, bit like the roads. So the
speed you see can be limited by your link to the exchange, the
exchange to BT, ISP link to BT, ISP out to net, internet traffic and
contention for an individual server on the net.

Exchange IPStream contention / VP status can be found on
www.samknows.com or somewhere on Plusnet's usertools site.

Phil
--
Splenda - the only sweetener made from chlorine :-)


Whilst on the subject of contention ratios...

I'm just in the process of upgrading from a 512K BB link with 50:1
contention ratio and am considering 2 options from my ISP:-

1. 2Meg Pipe with a 50:1 contention ratio @£39.99 per month
2. 1Meg link with 20:1 contention @ £64.99 pm

As the link is being used to work remotely (accessing corporate network via
VPN), which of these set-ups is going to give me the best balance between
speed and reliability?

My gut is to go for the 2Meg pipe with the higher contention ratio. As I
live in a predominantly residential area, I guess the resources at my
exchange are going to be in relatively low demand during business hours when
I would be using my connection.

TIA for your thoughts
Nick


 




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