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Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 19th 05, 11:56 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Look At End Of Message For Real Address
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

Hi Guys,

After 4 days of bashing my head against the wall with Plusnet/F9 (total
lack of sensible) Tech Support Dept, I totally give up and publicly beg for
any helpful and relevant suggestions ! Whenever I try to upload large
files via FTP, the session is always terminated with the following error
message (or similar, dependent on the specific FTP app being used):

Netout :10054 Connection closed by remote host.


In addition, I have subsequently established beyond any doubt whatsoever
that this occurs exactly 2 hours into the session for a single file - well
give or take 1 min errors in the file time stamps anyway - or possibly
after approx 2 hours and approx 200M of data transfer with several
concurrent sessions running. So my problem/question is: What the hell is
timing out my sessions after 120 +0 -1 minute or after ~200M of data
transfer ? My money is on the FTP server but it could no doubt be the FTP
apps, OS or Router etc. and I have run out of ideas for things to try.

So far, good old Plusnet/F9 (total lack of sensible) Tech Support have been
completely unable to read/understand the problem and choose not to answer
any of the specific questions I have asked. It is quite clear that they
only read as far as "ftp problem" and therefore the suggestions so far have
included such really helpful things as:

try using passive mode
try it w/o antivirus running
try it w/o any firewall running (yeah right !)
try using passive mode
try reinstalling the network card/drivers
try using passive mode
try checking/tweaking MTU
try checking/tweaking RWIN
oh yeah, did I say try using passive mode ? :-]

Whilst I'm happy to be proved wrong, I fail to understand quite how any of
the above could contribute to a timeout problem in any way ! Since the FTP
server appears unable to resume or append to files this problem makes it
completely impossible to upload large files. A summary of the established
facts is given below and any advise, suggestions or help would be very much
appreciated :-) Many thanks

PROBLEM: FTP upload sessions are terminated after 2 hours or ~200M data
SYSTEM: Various Win98 and WinME machines on the same network
ROUTER: Vigor 2600
CONNECTION: Plusnet 512K *unlimited*
TRANSFER RATES: Near perfect u/l and d/l speeds
OTHER PROBS: Nothing obvious - everything else seems to work just fine
FTP CLIENT: Have tried several - all suffer with the same problem
FTP MODE: Active or passive mode - the same prob using either
MTU: Still set at 1458 to cope with old BT issues but same prob at 1500
RWIN: Various settings between 4x and 12x MSS - always the same prob
AVIRUS: Doesn't matter if running or not
FIREWALL: Doesn't matter if local (software) f/w is running or not (*)
TIME: Doesn't matter - always the same prob at any time of day/night
OTHER CONNS: Doesn't matter whether there is any other traffic or not

(*) For obvious reasons I am not really prepared to seriously tweak the
router setup at the moment or try putting a machine in DMZ or similar :-)

--
Mike
e-mail: mikeb at twowheels dot plus dot com
  #2  
Old January 19th 05, 12:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

Look At End Of Message For Real Address wrote:

Whenever I try to upload large
files via FTP, the session is always terminated with the following error
message (or similar, dependent on the specific FTP app being used):


To which FTP server?

it's possible the server has a session time limit, if your router is NAT
based perhaps it has a bug/feature which time limits sessions ..
  #3  
Old January 19th 05, 12:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tiscali Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Look At End Of Message For Real Address wrote:

Hi Guys,

After 4 days of bashing my head against the wall with Plusnet/F9
(total lack of sensible) Tech Support Dept, I totally give up and
publicly beg for any helpful and relevant suggestions ! Whenever I
try to upload large files via FTP, the session is always terminated
with the following error message (or similar, dependent on the
specific FTP app being used):

Netout :10054 Connection closed by remote host.


Gory details snipped

As far as I can see, you haven't said *what* remote host you're sending this
lot to - presumably not your PlusNet webspace, 'cos you'd fill that up
pretty damn fast with 200MB a throw.

So how do you know that this is a PlusNet problem - and not something to do
with the (presumably third-party) remote host?
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #4  
Old January 19th 05, 12:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Look At End Of Message For Real Address
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:12:33 -0000, Tx2
wrote:

Could it be that you only have a 250MB bandwidth allowance per day, and
that overall, the amount of data being transferred (up/down) exceeds
this?


Hi

Thanks for suggestion but I don't think this is the case because I have
been able to make several consecutive attempts and each one always dies
after the 2 hours. With the number of times I have tried so far this week
I must be getting pretty near the top of the Plusnet Badboy List and
risking imminent banning or b/w clobbering tho ! Anyway, all the other
Plusnet users will be very pleased to hear that I am now giving up for the
day. I am just going outside .... I may be some time and all that :-)

--
Mike
e-mail: mikeb at twowheels dot plus dot com
  #5  
Old January 19th 05, 12:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Look At End Of Message For Real Address
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:20:58 -0000, "Tiscali Tim" wrote:

Hi

As far as I can see, you haven't said *what* remote host you're sending this
lot to - presumably not your PlusNet webspace, 'cos you'd fill that up
pretty damn fast with 200MB a throw.


f9 webspace: homepages.force9.net.uk and other aliases (212.159.8.1)

AFAIK, the space is (was) unlimited or at the very least is significantly
larger than the total needed for all files I have stored there although I
may be wrong here. However, I can have as many (failed) attempts as I want
to leaving numerous ~200M partial files of rubbish lying around !

So how do you know that this is a PlusNet problem - and not something to do
with the (presumably third-party) remote host?


I don't which is why I have been asking them questions relating to time or
size restrictions applied by Plusnet/F9 or in relation to FTP clients or
relevant to the FTP procedure in general. Despite numerous responses to
the tech supt ticket so far, none of my specific questions get answered in
any way.

--
Mike
e-mail: mikeb at twowheels dot plus dot com
  #6  
Old January 19th 05, 01:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

In article ,
Look At End Of Message For Real Address wrote:
After 4 days of bashing my head against the wall with Plusnet/F9 (total
lack of sensible) Tech Support Dept, I totally give up and publicly beg for
any helpful and relevant suggestions ! Whenever I try to upload large
files via FTP, the session is always terminated with the following error
message (or similar, dependent on the specific FTP app being used):

Netout :10054 Connection closed by remote host.


I know how frustrating this type of problem can be. I've experienced it
once, in a totally different context - not sure if it helps you or not.

For a large customer, we procured ATM PVC circuits from BT from London to
Northern Ireland. There were two switches and a router between the PCs and
the ATM circuit, and a router, switch and firewall (and another
switch/VLAN) to the servers. We got a very similar problem - after a
certain time or data volume, we got a remote connection timeout.

As we had quite a bit of control over each element (we ran the ftp server,
client and part of the network) we were eventually able to locate the
problem - which was a slight mismatch in what the ATM router on the far
side from the client thought the PVC bitrate was, and what it actually
was. This cocked up something in the router, and after a certain data
volume it would reset itself, losing the ftp connection. Somehow it didn't
drop any other connections (eg ssh, telnet).

So, while we spent ages looking at the ftp client and server, convinced
that it couldn't be something on the network, it was. If you can, try to
borrow another router or a USB modem and try, to ensure you can eliminate
your router/firewall.

Zane.
  #7  
Old January 19th 05, 02:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

Look At End Of Message For Real Address wrote:

f9 webspace: homepages.force9.net.uk plus other aliases (212.159.8.1)


I don't suppose homepages was designed to allow 200MB+ files, perhaps
that's their size cutoff. What are you hiding behind your fake 404 page
anyway?
  #8  
Old January 19th 05, 07:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,472
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:03:26 UTC, PlusNet Support
wrote:

There is a two hour session limit. This is to prevent anyone keeping
open a session.


Presumably this is clearly documented on your website ... or is it?

And is clearly documented when your call centre staff are trained...??
Not.
--
[Davism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. (also known as Gee-axia)]
  #9  
Old January 19th 05, 08:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Look At End Of Message For Real Address
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:03:26 +0000, PlusNet Support
wrote:

There is a two hour session limit. This is to prevent anyone keeping
open a session. Unfortunately it was a business decision to set this
time and we would need a very good reason to change it. From speaking
to the network team, your request is not sufficient.


Luke,

Thanks for actually responding with a sensible and presumably factual and
honest answer. It is very much appreciated despite the rather long and,
ehrm, mr.angry stylee response that I have just added to my ticket.

Suffice it to say that I'm not too impressed and the above couple of posts
from other readers of your response go a long way to explaining why along
with the fact that I have wasted the best part of the last 4 days because
Plusnet Support couldn't answer a simple question correctly. Dependent on
the response I get to the comments on my ticket, I will post more details
later to ensure that other customers are fully aware of the situation.

--
Mike
e-mail: mikeb at twowheels dot plus dot com
  #10  
Old January 19th 05, 08:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Look At End Of Message For Real Address
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Plusnet/Force9 FTP Prob (rant) but help appreciated :-)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:37:19 +0000, Spin Dryer wrote:

implies a webspace limit, as well as a daily bandwidth limit which
mentions uploads to webspace included in that bandwidth.

Would that have any bearing ?


Probably should have but clearly does not based on my recent experiences as
I exceeded my b/w on the very first occasion I tried to u/l the [email protected] file
not to mention the repeat attempts (mostly) at the request of support and
to try to determine what was going on. The published facts (which I must
admit I hadn't looked up on this occasion and which are quite different to
the ones in force when I signed up) obviously aren't enforced whereas the
(apparently) unpublished FTP session time limit is rigorously enforced. It
would appear that Plusnet clearly work in mysterious ways :-]

NOTE TO PLUSNET: Kindly ensure that I am removed from your badboy list for
excessive usage as it was (almost) entirely your problem and not mine !!!

--
Mike
e-mail: mikeb at twowheels dot plus dot com
 




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