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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

A strange problem with Pipex



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 1st 05, 10:23 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default A strange problem with Pipex

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5 min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec


  #2  
Old March 1st 05, 12:24 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default A strange problem with Pipex

"Paul" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:23:40 -0000, "Alec"
wrote:

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5

min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites

themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have

emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec

what firewall are you using?


Not using a Netgear router by any chance are you? I've found that my DG834G
v1.05.00 was failing DNS queries and I saw exactly this behaviour. I'm told
that the latest Beta release might help (not had chance to try) but also, if
you configure your PC to know the DNS server, instead of relying on DHCP/DNS
via the router, things then work.

Paul DS.


  #3  
Old March 1st 05, 12:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default A strange problem with Pipex

In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:23:40 -0000, "Alec"
wrote:

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5

min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites

themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have

emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec

what firewall are you using?


Not using a Netgear router by any chance are you? I've found that my DG834G
v1.05.00 was failing DNS queries and I saw exactly this behaviour. I'm told
that the latest Beta release might help (not had chance to try) but also, if
you configure your PC to know the DNS server, instead of relying on DHCP/DNS
via the router, things then work.


Interesting. That is exactly the same problem I had which I solved in exactly
the same manner. I have an Speedtouch 510 though.
I never did work out what the problem was but it wasn't obvious.

Pete
  #4  
Old March 1st 05, 02:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default A strange problem with Pipex

"Pete" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:23:40 -0000, "Alec"
wrote:

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5

min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites

themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have

emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is

it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec

what firewall are you using?


Not using a Netgear router by any chance are you? I've found that my

DG834G
v1.05.00 was failing DNS queries and I saw exactly this behaviour. I'm

told
that the latest Beta release might help (not had chance to try) but also,

if
you configure your PC to know the DNS server, instead of relying on

DHCP/DNS
via the router, things then work.


Interesting. That is exactly the same problem I had which I solved in

exactly
the same manner. I have an Speedtouch 510 though.
I never did work out what the problem was but it wasn't obvious.

Pete


I used Ethereal to diagnose the LAN/router leg and found that either
negative DNS responses came back, or no responses at all. The first caused
"Page not found" errors, the latter cause my browser to hang, apparently
waiting for some sort of response.

Paul DS.


  #5  
Old March 1st 05, 04:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default A strange problem with Pipex

In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
"Pete" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
Not using a Netgear router by any chance are you? I've found that my

DG834G
v1.05.00 was failing DNS queries and I saw exactly this behaviour. I'm

told
that the latest Beta release might help (not had chance to try) but also,

if
you configure your PC to know the DNS server, instead of relying on

DHCP/DNS
via the router, things then work.


Interesting. That is exactly the same problem I had which I solved in

exactly
the same manner. I have an Speedtouch 510 though.
I never did work out what the problem was but it wasn't obvious.

Pete


I used Ethereal to diagnose the LAN/router leg and found that either
negative DNS responses came back, or no responses at all. The first caused
"Page not found" errors, the latter cause my browser to hang, apparently
waiting for some sort of response.

Sounds like what I was seeing.
My suspicion was that if Pipexs DNS servers gave a negative response (or
know response at all), this negative result was getting cached somewhere.
Further requests for that address were failed locally. Once that DNS entry
timed out, it would work again.
Why this works any differently when DNS servers are configured on the PC
I'm still not clear of.

Pete
  #6  
Old March 1st 05, 05:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default A strange problem with Pipex

[snip]I used Ethereal to diagnose the LAN/router leg and found that either
negative DNS responses came back, or no responses at all. The first

caused
"Page not found" errors, the latter cause my browser to hang, apparently
waiting for some sort of response.

Sounds like what I was seeing.
My suspicion was that if Pipexs DNS servers gave a negative response (or
know response at all), this negative result was getting cached somewhere.
Further requests for that address were failed locally. Once that DNS entry
timed out, it would work again.
Why this works any differently when DNS servers are configured on the PC
I'm still not clear of.

Pete


If you leave the LAN clients to use DHCP to find a DNS server, then the
router acts as a DNS proxy. My understanding of this is that the router
answers DNS queries it knows about (for example other LAN clients that have
also registered using DHCP) but uses remote DNS servers to satisfy queries
for servers that the router does not know about.

There seem to be two problems

1. The router proxies on DNS queries then looses patience waiting for a
response so sends its own "don't know" response.
2. The router gives up on DNS completely and just swallows requests.

I can't confirm what happens on the ADSL side (anyone lend me an ADSL
Sniffer? ;-) ) but that is consistent with what I was seeing from Ethereal.

Now if you configure a DNS server on your LAN client, it sends the DNS query
directly to that server and the router neither proxies nor intercepts. Net
result, the router doesn't get a chance to screw things up!

Paul DS.


  #7  
Old March 1st 05, 06:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default A strange problem with Pipex


"Paul" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:23:40 -0000, "Alec"
wrote:

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5 min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites
themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have
emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec

what firewall are you using?

Firewall on Windows XP through Network Places.

Alec


  #8  
Old March 1st 05, 06:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default A strange problem with Pipex


"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
. net...
"Paul" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:23:40 -0000, "Alec"
wrote:

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5

min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites

themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have

emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec

what firewall are you using?


Not using a Netgear router by any chance are you? I've found that my
DG834G
v1.05.00 was failing DNS queries and I saw exactly this behaviour. I'm
told
that the latest Beta release might help (not had chance to try) but also,
if
you configure your PC to know the DNS server, instead of relying on
DHCP/DNS
via the router, things then work.

D-Link DSL-504. I simply installed it using the supplied CD and default
settings.

Alec


  #9  
Old March 1st 05, 06:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default A strange problem with Pipex


"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
. net...
"Paul" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:23:40 -0000, "Alec"
wrote:

I have Pipex ADSL line. When I try to access some websites (such as
Onestopphoneshop), it either doesn't open or if it does, after about 5

min
the screen just freezes. There's nothing wrong with the websites

themselves,
as I can access them with no problem through another dial-up. I have

emptied
the cache but made no difference. Anyone has idea what's going on? Is it
Pipex problem or is there something I can do to remedy it?

Alec

what firewall are you using?


Not using a Netgear router by any chance are you? I've found that my
DG834G
v1.05.00 was failing DNS queries and I saw exactly this behaviour. I'm
told
that the latest Beta release might help (not had chance to try) but also,
if
you configure your PC to know the DNS server, instead of relying on
DHCP/DNS
via the router, things then work.

Can you give me a step-by-step instruction on how to do this on my PC? I'm
running XP Home using Explorer.

Alec


  #10  
Old March 2nd 05, 03:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default A strange problem with Pipex

In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
[snip]I used Ethereal to diagnose the LAN/router leg and found that either
negative DNS responses came back, or no responses at all. The first

caused
"Page not found" errors, the latter cause my browser to hang, apparently
waiting for some sort of response.

Sounds like what I was seeing.
My suspicion was that if Pipexs DNS servers gave a negative response (or
know response at all), this negative result was getting cached somewhere.
Further requests for that address were failed locally. Once that DNS entry
timed out, it would work again.
Why this works any differently when DNS servers are configured on the PC
I'm still not clear of.

Pete


If you leave the LAN clients to use DHCP to find a DNS server, then the
router acts as a DNS proxy. My understanding of this is that the router
answers DNS queries it knows about (for example other LAN clients that have
also registered using DHCP) but uses remote DNS servers to satisfy queries
for servers that the router does not know about.

There seem to be two problems

1. The router proxies on DNS queries then looses patience waiting for a
response so sends its own "don't know" response.
2. The router gives up on DNS completely and just swallows requests.

I can't confirm what happens on the ADSL side (anyone lend me an ADSL
Sniffer? ;-) ) but that is consistent with what I was seeing from Ethereal.

Now if you configure a DNS server on your LAN client, it sends the DNS query
directly to that server and the router neither proxies nor intercepts. Net
result, the router doesn't get a chance to screw things up!

All sounds totally plausible. You also need to add into this equation
the fact that Windows XP (other MS O/Ss?) cache DNS locally.
So this can explain why if the router passes a negative repsonse to
the PC, why maybe the PC would not send a DNS query for a particular
host. You can configure XP to not cache negative reponses so that it
will always retry. But I never played with this enough to get to check if
that fixed the problem. I did try flush the DNS cache on the PC when I had
a problem but that seemed to have no effect.

Pete
 




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