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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

email disappearing



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 16th 05, 01:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Bartholomew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default email disappearing

This is a similar problem to a recent post, but a bit closer to home.

I've got a Vispa account from which I can send most emails without any
problem. I've got a UKReg registered domain (iandb.me.uk) to which I can
send most emails without any problem. The exception is that if I send
an email from Vispa to UKReg it fails to get through - I get a "timed
out" bounce message after 1 day and a failure after 3 days.

When I do a trace route the problem seems to be occurring on equipment
owned by NTL/Telewest ...

1 4 ms 4 ms 5 ms voyager.home [192.168.1.1]
2 26 ms 25 ms 32 ms vispahg2.birmingham.broadband.bt.net
[213.120.198.41]
3 27 ms 26 ms 25 ms 62.24.228.34
4 24 ms 24 ms 26 ms 62.24.228.1
5 27 ms 28 ms 26 ms 194.168.63.187
6 27 ms 117 ms 28 ms so-6-0-0.mp2.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net
[4.68.113.114]
7 27 ms 29 ms 27 ms so-3-0.hsa2.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net
[4.68.125.162]
8 39 ms 36 ms 43 ms 212.187.136.130
9 33 ms 35 ms 40 ms 194.117.136.217
10 47 ms 40 ms 44 ms 194.117.136.181
11 35 ms 34 ms 35 ms 195.188.230.17
12 35 ms 37 ms 37 ms 195.188.230.50
13 * *
195.188.230.50 reports: Destination net unreachable.

whois on 195.188.230.50 gives

inetnum: 195.188.230.0 - 195.188.231.255
netname: VOD
descr: Video on demand infrastructure
country: GB
admin-c: TWIP1-RIPE
tech-c: TWIP1-RIPE
etc

Has anyone any suggestions about what the problem might be (firewall,
routing, dns?) and who I should contact - I assuming ringing the normal
Telewest helpline would be a bit pointless.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.
  #2  
Old December 16th 05, 05:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
News24
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default email disappearing

Ian Bartholomew wrote in
:

This is a similar problem to a recent post, but a bit closer to home.

I've got a Vispa account from which I can send most emails without any
problem. I've got a UKReg registered domain (iandb.me.uk) to which I
can send most emails without any problem. The exception is that if I
send an email from Vispa to UKReg it fails to get through - I get a
"timed out" bounce message after 1 day and a failure after 3 days.

When I do a trace route the problem seems to be occurring on equipment
owned by NTL/Telewest ...

1 4 ms 4 ms 5 ms voyager.home [192.168.1.1]
2 26 ms 25 ms 32 ms vispahg2.birmingham.broadband.bt.net
[213.120.198.41]
3 27 ms 26 ms 25 ms 62.24.228.34
4 24 ms 24 ms 26 ms 62.24.228.1
5 27 ms 28 ms 26 ms 194.168.63.187
6 27 ms 117 ms 28 ms so-6-0-0.mp2.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net
[4.68.113.114]
7 27 ms 29 ms 27 ms so-3-0.hsa2.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net
[4.68.125.162]
8 39 ms 36 ms 43 ms 212.187.136.130
9 33 ms 35 ms 40 ms 194.117.136.217
10 47 ms 40 ms 44 ms 194.117.136.181
11 35 ms 34 ms 35 ms 195.188.230.17
12 35 ms 37 ms 37 ms 195.188.230.50
13 * *
195.188.230.50 reports: Destination net unreachable.

whois on 195.188.230.50 gives

inetnum: 195.188.230.0 - 195.188.231.255
netname: VOD
descr: Video on demand infrastructure
country: GB
admin-c: TWIP1-RIPE
tech-c: TWIP1-RIPE
etc

Has anyone any suggestions about what the problem might be (firewall,
routing, dns?) and who I should contact - I assuming ringing the
normal Telewest helpline would be a bit pointless.


Probably a long-shot, but I had similar problems where some web
addresses would simply time out, Pinging and Tracing giving the same
result. After a bit more digging I found that all the suspect addresses
had IP addresses starting 195.xxx.xxx.xxx. And lo and behold my router
was using a 195.xxx.xxx.xxx address range as its local subnet. Bearing
in mind 195.xxx.xxx.xxx is a public IP range, shouldn't be a problem,
but changed the router to 10.xxx.xxx.xxx and the problem ceased
immediately.

I note that the destination IP is a 195.xxx.xxx.xxx above so *perhaps*
there is a range conflict. Don't personally know enough about subnets
and IP ranges to know if this a wider problem.
  #3  
Old December 16th 05, 05:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Spack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default email disappearing

News24 wrote on 16 Dec 2005 16:22:12 GMT:

Ian Bartholomew wrote in
:

This is a similar problem to a recent post, but a bit closer to home.

I've got a Vispa account from which I can send most emails without any
problem. I've got a UKReg registered domain (iandb.me.uk) to which I
can send most emails without any problem. The exception is that if I
send an email from Vispa to UKReg it fails to get through - I get a
"timed out" bounce message after 1 day and a failure after 3 days.

When I do a trace route the problem seems to be occurring on equipment
owned by NTL/Telewest ...

1 4 ms 4 ms 5 ms voyager.home [192.168.1.1]
2 26 ms 25 ms 32 ms vispahg2.birmingham.broadband.bt.net
[213.120.198.41]
3 27 ms 26 ms 25 ms 62.24.228.34
4 24 ms 24 ms 26 ms 62.24.228.1
5 27 ms 28 ms 26 ms 194.168.63.187
6 27 ms 117 ms 28 ms so-6-0-0.mp2.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net
[4.68.113.114]
7 27 ms 29 ms 27 ms so-3-0.hsa2.Manchesteruk1.Level3.net
[4.68.125.162]
8 39 ms 36 ms 43 ms 212.187.136.130
9 33 ms 35 ms 40 ms 194.117.136.217
10 47 ms 40 ms 44 ms 194.117.136.181
11 35 ms 34 ms 35 ms 195.188.230.17
12 35 ms 37 ms 37 ms 195.188.230.50
13 * *
195.188.230.50 reports: Destination net unreachable.

whois on 195.188.230.50 gives

inetnum: 195.188.230.0 - 195.188.231.255
netname: VOD
descr: Video on demand infrastructure
country: GB
admin-c: TWIP1-RIPE
tech-c: TWIP1-RIPE
etc

Has anyone any suggestions about what the problem might be (firewall,
routing, dns?) and who I should contact - I assuming ringing the
normal Telewest helpline would be a bit pointless.

Probably a long-shot, but I had similar problems where some web
addresses would simply time out, Pinging and Tracing giving the same
result. After a bit more digging I found that all the suspect addresses
had IP addresses starting 195.xxx.xxx.xxx. And lo and behold my router
was using a 195.xxx.xxx.xxx address range as its local subnet. Bearing
in mind 195.xxx.xxx.xxx is a public IP range, shouldn't be a problem,
but changed the router to 10.xxx.xxx.xxx and the problem ceased
immediately.

I note that the destination IP is a 195.xxx.xxx.xxx above so *perhaps*
there is a range conflict. Don't personally know enough about subnets
and IP ranges to know if this a wider problem.


The trace clearly shows there isn't a range conflict. (1) the first router's
address is shown as 192.168.1.1, (2) if the PC had an address in the same
range as the destination, then the trace packets would never be passed out
from the router to the destination.

Seeing a "Destination net unreachable" tends to suggest that the router at
195.188.230.50 has no routing information to get to the next hop. Looks like
a router configuration problem within the Telewest/NTL network.

I've tried tracing to iandb.me.uk from here - same problem, the router
195.188.230.50 doesn't know what to do with the packet. I'm on Easynet, so
it's not a Vispa specific issue.

Dan


  #4  
Old December 16th 05, 07:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Bartholomew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default email disappearing

Spack wrote:

I've tried tracing to iandb.me.uk from here - same problem, the router
195.188.230.50 doesn't know what to do with the packet. I'm on Easynet, so
it's not a Vispa specific issue.


Thanks. I've only been able to try it from three other places and they
all worked. I'd assumed it wasn't Vispa specific - but you never know.

I'm not really up with how the net works at this level - could it be a
routing problem further back in the trace. I was thinking of an error
routing the packets into the NTL/Telewest network when it should have
gone somewhere else?. The "Video on demand infrastructure" name just
looked a bit suspect to me.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.
  #5  
Old December 16th 05, 08:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Spack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default email disappearing


"Ian Bartholomew" wrote in message
...
Spack wrote:

I've tried tracing to iandb.me.uk from here - same problem, the router
195.188.230.50 doesn't know what to do with the packet. I'm on Easynet,
so it's not a Vispa specific issue.


Thanks. I've only been able to try it from three other places and they
all worked. I'd assumed it wasn't Vispa specific - but you never know.

I'm not really up with how the net works at this level - could it be a
routing problem further back in the trace. I was thinking of an error
routing the packets into the NTL/Telewest network when it should have gone
somewhere else?. The "Video on demand infrastructure" name just looked a
bit suspect to me.


Well, the packets are being forwarded by some NTL/TW routers, so that
suggest they should be able to route them to their destination, otherwise
they'd fail at the first NTL/TW router. I'd expect to see some sort of loop,
packets being bounced between 2 routers, if the NTL/TW network was trying to
route them back the way they came in (which is probably what would happen if
NTL/TW weren't supposed to be in the route in the first place). Also, with
the route from Easynet going the same way, it looks like they should be
going there, at least with the peering arrangements Vispa and Easynet have
in place. I suppose it's possible that NTL/TW previously had a peering
arrangement to pass the packets on and have now disconnected it (and not
bothered to update their own routing tables to remove the route through
their network), and the Vispa and Easynet routers haven't been updated with
new routing information. Can you get a trace from an ISP that it does work
on?

As to the VOD name, it's just a name that NTL/TW gave when they were
assigned the block. That may well have been the intention for the entire
block back then, but they may have decided to reuse a section of it for
other parts of their network.

Dan


  #6  
Old December 16th 05, 09:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Bartholomew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default email disappearing

Spack wrote:

new routing information. Can you get a trace from an ISP that it does work
on?


Now I'm even more confused. I've got an old dial-up account with
PlusNet so I went into the portal and found I was able to send emails,
using the webmail facility, to iandb.me.uk without a problem.

To get a trace from them I had to dig out my old modem cable, set up a
dun and connect via their 0845 number. I then did a tracert - and it
failed in the same place. It just got there a different way...

==========
1 177 ms 152 ms 167 ms pth-as2.plus.net [212.159.7.66]
2 171 ms 167 ms 159 ms gi4-0-10.pth-gw2.plus.net [212.159.7.94]
3 173 ms 167 ms 167 ms gi1-1-22.ptn-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.6]
4 174 ms 152 ms 167 ms gig-gw2-UK.cableinet.net [195.66.226.34]
5 174 ms 175 ms 167 ms 194.117.136.165
6 289 ms 167 ms 175 ms 194.117.136.149
7 179 ms 167 ms 175 ms 194.117.136.177
8 170 ms 160 ms 175 ms 194.117.136.181
9 160 ms 175 ms 167 ms 195.188.230.13
10 179 ms 175 ms 167 ms 195.188.230.50
11 * * * Request timed out.
==========

I didn't try sending an email from their SMTP server, if it will help
then I could do so.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.
  #7  
Old December 17th 05, 12:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark McIntyre
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,835
Default email disappearing

On 16 Dec 2005 16:22:12 GMT, in uk.telecom.broadband , News24
wrote:

my router
was using a 195.xxx.xxx.xxx address range as its local subnet. Bearing
in mind 195.xxx.xxx.xxx is a public IP range, shouldn't be a problem,


Actually, its very likely to be. Your router should use private
addresses only. This is what private addresses are for.

I suspect you have public/prvate backwards in your head. Public
addresses are ones visible to everyone in the world, and use of htem
is closely controlled so that nobody tramples on anyone else's
address. Private addresses are invisible outside your router and
nobody cares which ones you use as they're hidden.
  #8  
Old December 17th 05, 10:02 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Spack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default email disappearing

"Ian Bartholomew" wrote in message
...
Spack wrote:

new routing information. Can you get a trace from an ISP that it does
work on?


Now I'm even more confused. I've got an old dial-up account with PlusNet
so I went into the portal and found I was able to send emails, using the
webmail facility, to iandb.me.uk without a problem.


Their webmail server likely has a different route to the other end then.

To get a trace from them I had to dig out my old modem cable, set up a dun
and connect via their 0845 number. I then did a tracert - and it failed
in the same place. It just got there a different way...

==========
1 177 ms 152 ms 167 ms pth-as2.plus.net [212.159.7.66]
2 171 ms 167 ms 159 ms gi4-0-10.pth-gw2.plus.net [212.159.7.94]
3 173 ms 167 ms 167 ms gi1-1-22.ptn-gw5.plus.net [212.159.4.6]
4 174 ms 152 ms 167 ms gig-gw2-UK.cableinet.net [195.66.226.34]
5 174 ms 175 ms 167 ms 194.117.136.165
6 289 ms 167 ms 175 ms 194.117.136.149
7 179 ms 167 ms 175 ms 194.117.136.177
8 170 ms 160 ms 175 ms 194.117.136.181
9 160 ms 175 ms 167 ms 195.188.230.13
10 179 ms 175 ms 167 ms 195.188.230.50
11 * * * Request timed out.
==========

I didn't try sending an email from their SMTP server, if it will help then
I could do so.


Hmm, you're getting a request timed out, rather than Destination
netunreachable. I bet if you left it going a bit longer you'd get the same
response as before - I just tried from my PlusNet ADSL here, it takes a
slightly different path again in NTL/TW but gets to the same router.

I've just tried from www.tracert.org, and it gets further:

1 ev1s-66-98-216-1.ev1servers.net (66.98.216.1) 0.589 ms 0.373 ms 0.437
ms
2 ivhou-207-218-245-3.ev1.net (207.218.245.3) 2.529 ms 0.341 ms 0.295
ms
3 ge-0-2-0.r00.hstntx01.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.10.69) 1.214 ms 29.185
ms 1.287 ms
4 p16-0-1-3.r20.dllstx09.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.2.50) 6.648 ms 7.644
ms 8.108 ms
MPLS Label=667376 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
5 p16-3-0-0.r01.dllstx09.us.bb.verio.net (129.250.2.185) 7.575 ms 7.465
ms 7.471 ms
6 204.70.134.41 (204.70.134.41) 6.128 ms 38.593 ms 6.121 ms
7 bcs1-as0-0.dallas.savvis.net (204.70.193.213) 6.251 ms 6.465 ms 6.419
ms
8 bcs2-so-6-0-0.Dallas.savvis.net (204.70.192.50) 6.397 ms 6.924 ms
6.526 ms
MPLS Label=605824 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
9 dcr2-so-6-0-0.Atlanta.savvis.net (204.70.192.69) 26.532 ms 26.131 ms
26.106 ms
MPLS Label=622048 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
10 bcs2-so-1-1-0.Washington.savvis.net (204.70.192.58) 39.591 ms 39.897
ms 40.388 ms
MPLS Label=148001 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
11 bcs2-so-2-0-0.NewYork.savvis.net (204.70.192.2) 44.369 ms 44.103 ms
44.488 ms
MPLS Label=322560 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
12 bcs1-so-0-0-0.Londonlnx.savvis.net (204.70.192.122) 114.028 ms 114.495
ms 114.350 ms
13 206.24.169.174 (206.24.169.174) 105.442 ms 106.018 ms 105.358 ms
14 194.117.136.165 (194.117.136.165) 118.198 ms 118.235 ms 339.285 ms
MPLS Label=3284 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
15 194.117.136.149 (194.117.136.149) 114.143 ms 113.740 ms 114.359 ms
MPLS Label=2161 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
16 194.117.136.177 (194.117.136.177) 113.935 ms 113.763 ms 113.845 ms
MPLS Label=9735 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
17 194.117.136.181 (194.117.136.181) 118.003 ms 118.013 ms 118.065 ms
MPLS Label=10202 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
18 195.188.230.5 (195.188.230.5) 117.505 ms 117.633 ms 117.379 ms
MPLS Label=105 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=0
19 195.188.230.50 (195.188.230.50) 113.865 ms 113.717 ms 113.699 ms
20 82.33.208.14 (82.33.208.14) 123.573 ms 118.127 ms 118.090 ms
21 195.188.40.106 (195.188.40.106) 118.271 ms 118.289 ms 118.332 ms
22 * * *

The final timeout (the tracert.org site doesn't list the reason) could
easily be due to a firewall or router dropping ICMP/traceroute packets at
the end, so doesn't necessarily show that there's a problem.

Tracing from here to that final listed IP has the same result as before -
destination net unreachable from the same router as before.

This is beginning to look like NTL/TW have possible got something in place
at router 195.188.230.50 to drop packets from certain IP ranges (for
instance, Easynet, PlusNet, Vispa ranges allocated for dial-up/xDSL). I
think you're going to have to try going through their support line to find
out what's happening, or get your mail hosting provider to tackle it from
the other - they may well have more luck getting hold of someone who knows
what's going on.

Dan


  #9  
Old December 17th 05, 11:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Bartholomew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default email disappearing

Spack wrote:

This is beginning to look like NTL/TW have possible got something in place
at router 195.188.230.50 to drop packets from certain IP ranges (for
instance, Easynet, PlusNet, Vispa ranges allocated for dial-up/xDSL). I
think you're going to have to try going through their support line to find
out what's happening, or get your mail hosting provider to tackle it from
the other - they may well have more luck getting hold of someone who knows
what's going on.


OK, many thanks for all your help. Neither Vispa or UKReg are showing
much interest in helping at the moment, but I'll keep plugging away.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.
  #10  
Old December 17th 05, 03:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Steve Purdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default email disappearing

"Spack" wrote in message
...
"Ian Bartholomew" wrote in message
...
Spack wrote:

new routing information. Can you get a trace from an ISP that it does
work on?


Now I'm even more confused. I've got an old dial-up account with PlusNet
so I went into the portal and found I was able to send emails, using the
webmail facility, to iandb.me.uk without a problem.


Their webmail server likely has a different route to the other end then.

To get a trace from them I had to dig out my old modem cable, set up a
dun and connect via their 0845 number. I then did a tracert - and it
failed in the same place. It just got there a different way...

==========
1 177 ms 152 ms 167 ms pth-as2.plus.net [212.159.7.66]
2 171 ms 167 ms 159 ms gi4-0-10.pth-gw2.plus.net [212.159.7.94]

[SNIPPED]
9 160 ms 175 ms 167 ms 195.188.230.13
10 179 ms 175 ms 167 ms 195.188.230.50
11 * * * Request timed out.
==========

I didn't try sending an email from their SMTP server, if it will help
then I could do so.


Hmm, you're getting a request timed out, rather than Destination
netunreachable. I bet if you left it going a bit longer you'd get the same
response as before - I just tried from my PlusNet ADSL here, it takes a
slightly different path again in NTL/TW but gets to the same router.

I've just tried from www.tracert.org, and it gets further:

1 ev1s-66-98-216-1.ev1servers.net (66.98.216.1) 0.589 ms 0.373 ms
0.437 ms
2 ivhou-207-218-245-3.ev1.net (207.218.245.3) 2.529 ms 0.341 ms 0.295
ms

[SNIPPED]
19 195.188.230.50 (195.188.230.50) 113.865 ms 113.717 ms 113.699 ms
20 82.33.208.14 (82.33.208.14) 123.573 ms 118.127 ms 118.090 ms
21 195.188.40.106 (195.188.40.106) 118.271 ms 118.289 ms 118.332 ms
22 * * *

The final timeout (the tracert.org site doesn't list the reason) could
easily be due to a firewall or router dropping ICMP/traceroute packets at
the end, so doesn't necessarily show that there's a problem.

Tracing from here to that final listed IP has the same result as before -
destination net unreachable from the same router as before.

This is beginning to look like NTL/TW have possible got something in place
at router 195.188.230.50 to drop packets from certain IP ranges (for
instance, Easynet, PlusNet, Vispa ranges allocated for dial-up/xDSL). I
think you're going to have to try going through their support line to find
out what's happening, or get your mail hosting provider to tackle it from
the other - they may well have more luck getting hold of someone who knows
what's going on.

Dan


I'm not sure where exactly you are tracing the route to but I did a lookup
on what machine handles mail for iandb.me.uk and found that we need to talk
to mailserver.iandb.me.uk,

I tried to trace the route to both iandb.me.uk and mailserver.iandb.me.uk
and both stop at the address you give but if I actually try to send email to
that domain it all works fine. (N.B. I did not actually send a mail, just
tested email connectivity to the server)

To really check if you can connect to the email server try this:
Open a command window
type this line after the ....:
telnet mailserver.iandb.me.uk 25 and press return
if you can actually get an EMAIL connection to the server you should get
this on your screen:
220 mail-frees01.fasthosts.co.uk ESMTP Postfix
and a flashing curser, now type:
quit and press return
and close the window.
If you get anything else there is a problem (note what it says and just shut
the window anyway)

Then decide what or even IF there is a problem.

--
Steve


 




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