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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

VoIP and 999/112 service?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th 05, 02:06 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
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Posts: 3,969
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Owain wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:
This has become a big issue in the US because their market is
different.


Their 911 service is also rather different, with 911 operators often
being responsible for taking call details and despatching the
*appropriate* organisation - many areas have multiple,
geographically overlapping law enforcement organisations with
different and sometimes conflicting responsibilities. And of course
it's a huge country.
The UK organisation of emergency services is far more
straightforward and provided the answering call centre can get a
general location the call can be connected quickly to the correct
service/area who have local knowledge.


[Cross posted to uk.telecom.voip]

The question remains, what happens if someone takes a VoIP phone or ATA to
another location, which could be anywhere in the world..? Whose emergency
services would you get, indeed which number would you dial..? I visit the
US regularly and although I haven't had an ATA long enough I will be
taking it with me on my next visit. Should I dial 999, 112, 911, what..?

Ivor


  #2  
Old May 19th 05, 02:26 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Wireless Reader
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Posts: 42
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Ivor Jones wrote:

The question remains, what happens if someone takes a VoIP phone or ATA to
another location, which could be anywhere in the world..? Whose emergency
services would you get, indeed which number would you dial..? I visit the
US regularly and although I haven't had an ATA long enough I will be
taking it with me on my next visit. Should I dial 999, 112, 911, what..?


I can't see how calls on your ATA can be routed to anything but 112/999
(UK) if your VOIP is UK based. Dialling should fail to connect (well it
does on my VOIP service).

That is why with VOIP the non-emergency number becomes so much more
important to use - it gets you through to someone - and in your language.
  #3  
Old May 19th 05, 07:11 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Wireless Reader wrote:
Ivor Jones wrote:

The question remains, what happens if someone takes a VoIP phone
or ATA to another location, which could be anywhere in the
world..? Whose emergency services would you get, indeed which
number would you dial..? I visit the US regularly and although I
haven't had an ATA long enough I will be taking it with me on my
next visit. Should I dial 999, 112, 911, what..?


I can't see how calls on your ATA can be routed to anything but
112/999 (UK) if your VOIP is UK based. Dialling should fail to
connect (well it does on my VOIP service).

That is why with VOIP the non-emergency number becomes so much more
important to use - it gets you through to someone - and in your
language.


Precisely my point. I suppose there might be some way of linking the
destination of the call to the IP address in use, but personally I
wouldn't use VoIP for an emergency call anyway. I have no intention of
getting rid of my traditional landlines just yet and there is always the
mobile.

Ivor


  #4  
Old May 20th 05, 07:35 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Jet Morgan
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Posts: 28
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?


"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

The question remains, what happens if someone takes a VoIP phone or ATA to
another location, which could be anywhere in the world..? Whose emergency
services would you get, indeed which number would you dial..? I visit the
US regularly and although I haven't had an ATA long enough I will be
taking it with me on my next visit. Should I dial 999, 112, 911, what..?


If you have VoIP service in the UK, do you have to dial the fully-qualified
national number at all times ? I assume that you do, as there's presumably
no concept of "local".

Now, when you take a VoIP phone from the UK and use in the USA (or France,
or Germany, or Australia, or anywhere else), *how* are dialed numbers
resolved ? If using a UK VoIP phone in the USA to dial a USA number, do
you have to dial "xxx yyyy", "www xxx yyyy", "1 www xxx yyyy" or what ?

It seems a similar set-up to when roaming on GSM: numbers dialed on
a roaming GSM handset and resolved as if they were dialed by a local
user on that hosting network ? Is this the way it works ? I ask because
I've just seen mention that roaming Tesco mobile handset's don't
work that way: you have to dial as if you were still in the UK, so
you still have to dial +xx-whatever to get to the country that you're
physically in.

Someone will have to think about how VoIP roamers' dialed numbers
are resolved, before addressing the specific question as to how
they are resolved in the special case of 999/112/911.

Richard [in SE13]


  #5  
Old May 20th 05, 08:15 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Jet Morgan wrote:
"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

The question remains, what happens if someone takes a VoIP phone
or ATA to another location, which could be anywhere in the
world..? Whose emergency services would you get, indeed which
number would you dial..? I visit the US regularly and although I
haven't had an ATA long enough I will be taking it with me on my
next visit. Should I dial 999, 112, 911, what..?


If you have VoIP service in the UK, do you have to dial the
fully-qualified national number at all times ? I assume that you
do, as there's presumably no concept of "local".


Yes. Although if someone in the same area code as your number wants to
call you from BT or whoever they can just dial the local part of the
number. But for outgoing VoIP to PSTN calls you dial the full number as
you do from a mobile.

Now, when you take a VoIP phone from the UK and use in the USA (or
France, or Germany, or Australia, or anywhere else), *how* are
dialed numbers resolved ? If using a UK VoIP phone in the USA to
dial a USA number, do you have to dial "xxx yyyy", "www xxx yyyy",
"1 www xxx yyyy" or what ?


As far as your VoIP system is concerned, you are in the UK, wherever you
are located in reality. So you would dial (and you would be charged)
exactly the same as you would from the UK. So will callers calling you.

It seems a similar set-up to when roaming on GSM: numbers dialed on
a roaming GSM handset and resolved as if they were dialed by a local
user on that hosting network ? Is this the way it works ? I ask
because I've just seen mention that roaming Tesco mobile handset's
don't
work that way: you have to dial as if you were still in the UK, so
you still have to dial +xx-whatever to get to the country that
you're physically in.


If you are roaming on a mobile you dial exactly as if you were in the UK,
although you will usually need to use the + international symbol and
country code, i.e. +1 234 567 8901 when calling the US, even if you are
there.

Someone will have to think about how VoIP roamers' dialed numbers
are resolved, before addressing the specific question as to how
they are resolved in the special case of 999/112/911.


I wouldn't even think of using VoIP for an emergency call..!!

Ivor


  #6  
Old May 21st 05, 12:34 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Ivor Jones wrote:
Jet Morgan wrote:
If you have VoIP service in the UK, do you have to dial the
fully-qualified national number at all times ? I assume that you
do, as there's presumably no concept of "local".


Yes. Although if someone in the same area code as your number wants to
call you from BT or whoever they can just dial the local part of the
number. But for outgoing VoIP to PSTN calls you dial the full number as
you do from a mobile.


Unless calling someone on the same network (i.e. same voip provider), in
which case it's also possible to dial the "local" number. E.g. for a
Sipgate user to call my Sipgate number, they can just dial 660 xyza,
rather than 0161 660 xyza. However, you may not know that the called
party is on the same network, but that is of no consequence as calling
the full PSTN number will work too.

Now, when you take a VoIP phone from the UK and use in the USA (or
France, or Germany, or Australia, or anywhere else), *how* are
dialed numbers resolved ? If using a UK VoIP phone in the USA to
dial a USA number, do you have to dial "xxx yyyy", "www xxx yyyy",
"1 www xxx yyyy" or what ?



As far as your VoIP system is concerned, you are in the UK, wherever you
are located in reality. So you would dial (and you would be charged)
exactly the same as you would from the UK. So will callers calling you.


Yes, presuming you are signed up with a UK voip provider that provides
you with a UK PSTN number and allows you to dial using a UK dial plan.
If you're signed up with a US/German/Belgian/etc. voip provider, access
will be accordingly. So if you are signed up with Sipgate UK, and you
connect in the US, you will have to dial as though in the UK. If
connected with Vonage USA, you will have to dial as though in the US.
Etc., etc.
  #7  
Old May 21st 05, 12:46 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Chris wrote:
Ivor Jones wrote:
Jet Morgan wrote:
If you have VoIP service in the UK, do you have to dial the
fully-qualified national number at all times ? I assume that you
do, as there's presumably no concept of "local".


Yes. Although if someone in the same area code as your number
wants to call you from BT or whoever they can just dial the local
part of the number. But for outgoing VoIP to PSTN calls you dial
the full number as you do from a mobile.


Unless calling someone on the same network (i.e. same voip
provider), in which case it's also possible to dial the "local"
number. E.g. for a Sipgate user to call my Sipgate number, they can
just dial 660 xyza, rather than 0161 660 xyza. However, you may not
know that the called party is on the same network, but that is of
no consequence as calling the full PSTN number will work too.


I took that as read, I understood it to mean PSTN numbers.

Now, when you take a VoIP phone from the UK and use in the USA (or
France, or Germany, or Australia, or anywhere else), *how* are
dialed numbers resolved ? If using a UK VoIP phone in the USA to
dial a USA number, do you have to dial "xxx yyyy", "www xxx yyyy",
"1 www xxx yyyy" or what ?



As far as your VoIP system is concerned, you are in the UK,
wherever you are located in reality. So you would dial (and you
would be charged) exactly the same as you would from the UK. So
will callers calling you.


Yes, presuming you are signed up with a UK voip provider that
provides you with a UK PSTN number and allows you to dial using a
UK dial plan. If you're signed up with a US/German/Belgian/etc.
voip provider, access will be accordingly. So if you are signed up
with Sipgate UK, and you connect in the US, you will have to dial
as though in the UK. If connected with Vonage USA, you will have to
dial as though in the US. Etc., etc.


Yes, I should have clarified that.

Ivor


  #8  
Old May 21st 05, 10:48 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Jet Morgan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

If you are roaming on a mobile you dial exactly as if you were in the UK,
although you will usually need to use the + international symbol and
country code, i.e. +1 234 567 8901 when calling the US, even if you are
there.


I don't understand this. "as if you were in the UK" seems to contradict
"use the + .. country code".

If I want to call from Orange to Manchester:
within the UK, I can dial:
"0161.."
"0044161.."
"+44161.."

If I roamed that Orange handset to the USA, I would
presumably have to dial "+44161..". That's what I would
expect, but how is this "as if you were in the UK" ?

Are you saying that I specifically can not use the "00"
prefix (from USA), that I might have to use the "011"
prefix instead ?




Richard [in SE13]


  #9  
Old May 21st 05, 11:07 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?

Jet Morgan wrote:
"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

If you are roaming on a mobile you dial exactly as if you were in
the UK, although you will usually need to use the + international
symbol and country code, i.e. +1 234 567 8901 when calling the US,
even if you are there.


I don't understand this. "as if you were in the UK" seems to
contradict "use the + .. country code".


You can dial using +44 to call a UK number from within the UK. I have all
my memory numbers set to this, then I don't have to alter them when I go
anywhere.

If I want to call from Orange to Manchester:
within the UK, I can dial:
"0161.."
"0044161.."
"+44161.."

If I roamed that Orange handset to the USA, I would
presumably have to dial "+44161..". That's what I would
expect, but how is this "as if you were in the UK" ?


See above.

Are you saying that I specifically can not use the "00"
prefix (from USA), that I might have to use the "011"
prefix instead ?


I'm not sure to be honest, I've always used either the +44 method or a
local calling card. You're on a US network so I imagine you'd use their
codes, but I may be wrong.

Ivor


  #10  
Old May 21st 05, 11:15 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.voip
Jet Morgan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default VoIP and 999/112 service?


"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

You can dial using +44 to call a UK number from within the UK. I have all
my memory numbers set to this, then I don't have to alter them when I go
anywhere.


Yes. So do I.

I know that you *CAN* use +whatever from the UK, but your
post said paraph "exactly as from the UK, but you *may* need to dial
+country" /paraph.

Can you give an example of dialing "exactly as from the UK" but which
*doesn't* need the +countrycode bit and which will work sensibly when
roaming ?

Could you, for example, dial 1571 and get CallMisser (no I don't think so)
?..
... or dial the short code for the home network's answering service.

It seems to me as if your original posting could equally have
been written "you NEED to dial +countrycode when roaming". Does the "exactly
as in the UK" bit add anything that I don't know about ?

Richard [in PE12]


 




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