I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".

That is approximately 16 calls per day I'd HAVE to make before I broke
even.
Plus, I'd have to have the PC on, a £25 handset (that's 1250 calls via
a normal phone), and be using my broadband connection, all for a call
who's quality is someone dubious. If I was making over 16 calls per
day, I'd probably be a business, in which case I'd probably be on a
better value unlimited plan anyway.

I've looked at the costs and comparison sites over and over again, but
when I can pick up an ordinary phone and talk for hours for 2p via
18866, or
2p/minute to NZ/Aus/USA, I just can't make it break even. And by the
time it has, it'll probably be obsolete!

I'm lost with this one - it's the same as with 3G...someone invented
it,
people seem to want it, but no-one (and I mean no-one) has yet actually
told
me that they've found a use for paying to watch postage stamp size
music
videos! Or that poor people would want to pay £3/week to have a crazy
frog...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".

That is approximately 16 calls per day I'd HAVE to make before I broke
even.
Plus, I'd have to have the PC on, a £25 handset (that's 1250 calls via
a normal phone), and be using my broadband connection, all for a call
who's quality is someone dubious. If I was making over 16 calls per
day, I'd probably be a business, in which case I'd probably be on a
better value unlimited plan anyway.

I've looked at the costs and comparison sites over and over again, but
when I can pick up an ordinary phone and talk for hours for 2p via
18866, or
2p/minute to NZ/Aus/USA, I just can't make it break even. And by the
time it has, it'll probably be obsolete!

I'm lost with this one - it's the same as with 3G...someone invented
it,
people seem to want it, but no-one (and I mean no-one) has yet actually
told
me that they've found a use for paying to watch postage stamp size
music
videos! Or that poor people would want to pay £3/week to have a crazy
frog...
--------------------------------------

I'm obviously a bit of a nutter!

I have a UK number for each of my phones. So, all the family have a DDI. I
also have one number that rings all phones.

I pay nothing for the (virtual) lines. If I wanted to replicate this on
traditional lines, I'd be paying around £50 per month just for the rentals.

I was paying for three POTS lines. With "Free Calls" packages, I was paying
£45 per month.

I have naked broadband (cable), so therefore do not have any phone line
rental to pay.

I can ring other family members who use VOIP for nothing.

What's not to get?

wrote:
I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".

You are missing nothing. With the competitive market in the UK and
things like CPS there is not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
parts of the world. Even BT 21CN will only replace the 'trunk'
connections with VoIP - your line to the house is likely to stay TDM for
a while to come yet.


Matt.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I'm clearly failing to "get" something about the benefits of VOIP. I
saw an ad on Google for "unlimited UK VOIP calls, only £9.99/month".

You are missing nothing. With the competitive market in the UK and
things like CPS there is not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
parts of the world. Even BT 21CN will only replace the 'trunk'
connections with VoIP - your line to the house is likely to stay TDM for
a while to come yet.

VoIP calls are free between users of the same system, also the majority
(not all) VoIP providers have agreements for free calls between users by
dialling access codes. For example I can dial from Sipgate to FWD,
Gradwell etc. for free. I also have friends in the US and I have a US
phone number that routes to my Sipgate line so they can call me on a local
(to them) number. (The US number is free also, BTW).

It is also advantageous for those that live abroad and want to keep in
touch with friends and family in the UK. They can have a UK phone number
and call around the UK from anywhere in the world that has a broadband
connection. If you go on holiday and there is BB access there you can plug
in an adaptor and call back home free to VoIP users or at local rates to
other UK numbers. I go to the US and stay with friends there; they have
ADSL and all I have to do is plug my ATA into their router and I have the
same UK phone lines as I have at home.

Sipgate have free phone numbers with no monthly charge at all and very
cheap rates for calls to UK landlines.

Ivor

Ivor Jones wrote:
VoIP calls are free between users of the same system, also the majority
(not all) VoIP providers have agreements for free calls between users by
dialling access codes. For example I can dial from Sipgate to FWD,
Gradwell etc. for free. I also have friends in the US and I have a US
phone number that routes to my Sipgate line so they can call me on a local
(to them) number. (The US number is free also, BTW).

If you like to call your granny or aunt I think in most cases you will
need to drop out to the PSTN (for a while at least) so free inter-voip
provider calls are going to be limited to your techie fiends.
If you use a CPS provider or calling card you can get flat rate single
digit pence per *call* rates to the US (and other international
locations) all from the copper coming into your house and using the same
handset.

It is also advantageous for those that live abroad and want to keep in
touch with friends and family in the UK. They can have a UK phone number
and call around the UK from anywhere in the world that has a broadband
connection. If you go on holiday and there is BB access there you can plug
in an adaptor and call back home free to VoIP users or at local rates to
other UK numbers. I go to the US and stay with friends there; they have
ADSL and all I have to do is plug my ATA into their router and I have the
same UK phone lines as I have at home.

Most of this is covered by "not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
parts of the world". Perhaps voicemail would service the "away on
holiday" requirement - really depends on the utility people see in such
things. I don't disagree that VoIP is useful (I have 5 VoIP phones on my
Asterisk box at home) but the fact it is not going to be significantly
cheaper than traditional PSTN means it probably won't take off to the
same extent here in the UK as elsewhere in the world (or not until the
end device becomes 'free'). In fact once you have bought your ATAs or
SIP phones it never going to pay back based on the phone bills of most
users.


Matt.

Yes, as others say, the £9.99 package is really not very interesting
as the UK market for calls is pretty competitive and call prices have
fallen as a result. If it's just cheap calls to other PSTN customers
you want, one of the carrier pre-select services is by far the simplest
way of doing it.

VoIP is more about the ability to do lots of other things as well,
particularly if you're a small business or a home worker where you can
have the features and functionality of a large enterprise for very
little outlay.

Having said that, the ability to make totally free calls to anywhere on
the planet is a extreemly powerful, for all users.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
Ivor Jones wrote:
VoIP calls are free between users of the same system, also the majority
(not all) VoIP providers have agreements for free calls between users
by
dialling access codes. For example I can dial from Sipgate to FWD,
Gradwell etc. for free. I also have friends in the US and I have a US
phone number that routes to my Sipgate line so they can call me on a
local
(to them) number. (The US number is free also, BTW).

If you like to call your granny or aunt I think in most cases you will
need to drop out to the PSTN (for a while at least) so free inter-voip
provider calls are going to be limited to your techie fiends.
If you use a CPS provider or calling card you can get flat rate single
digit pence per *call* rates to the US (and other international
locations) all from the copper coming into your house and using the same
handset.

True, but there is no minimum charge of 5/6p as there is with PSTN. I
resent paying for 5 minutes when I only want to mane a 30 second call..!
It's too much hassle using calling cards and I wouldn't trust any of the
CPS providers as far as I can spit..!

It is also advantageous for those that live abroad and want to keep in
touch with friends and family in the UK. They can have a UK phone
number
and call around the UK from anywhere in the world that has a broadband
connection. If you go on holiday and there is BB access there you can
plug
in an adaptor and call back home free to VoIP users or at local rates
to
other UK numbers. I go to the US and stay with friends there; they have
ADSL and all I have to do is plug my ATA into their router and I have
the
same UK phone lines as I have at home.

Most of this is covered by "not as much of advantage to VoIP as to other
parts of the world". Perhaps voicemail would service the "away on
holiday" requirement - really depends on the utility people see in such
things. I don't disagree that VoIP is useful (I have 5 VoIP phones on my
Asterisk box at home) but the fact it is not going to be significantly
cheaper than traditional PSTN means it probably won't take off to the
same extent here in the UK as elsewhere in the world (or not until the
end device becomes 'free'). In fact once you have bought your ATAs or
SIP phones it never going to pay back based on the phone bills of most
users.

Probably not, but I didn't get VoIP to save money. I got it as I am
interested in the technology. That I can stay on the line to friends free
and keep my UK number while I'm out of the country are bonuses.

Ivor

cjd wrote:

Yes, as others say, the £9.99 package is really not very interesting
as the UK market for calls is pretty competitive and call prices have
fallen as a result. If it's just cheap calls to other PSTN customers
you want, one of the carrier pre-select services is by far the simplest
way of doing it.

With BT and the cablecos a good wedge of your £10.50 is dead-money,
unless you make all your calls at the weekend. With VoIP that £9.99
could be all you pay for the month if you only call geographic landline
numbers or other VoIP users.

Eventually VoIP will become a valid replacement for people's POTS lines
rather than just a fancy addition. Plug-n-play style ATAs and a proper
999 service can't be too far away, and sooner or later BT will have to
unbundle broadband from their POTS service. That's when VoIP will make
sense from a cost point of view.

--
The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

True, but there is no minimum charge of 5/6p as there is with PSTN.

Yes, but no-one actually pays those charges - they are just a nominal
figure, like "local" and "national" rate is left as a nominal figure so
BT/Oftel etc can still get away with refering to 0845/0870 as those numbers.
I consider my phone use to be "semi-heavy", but I really honestly can't be
arsed with the whole idea of buying extra handsets to save perhaps the odd
2p here or there. My call pattern is perhaps 8-9 calls per day, so that's
under 20p all in no matter how long I talk, and I call the USA and NZ about
3 times a month, chat for about 5 minutes, so that's 10p for those calls. My
entire phone bill since January has been the same as 6 pints at the local.
Still not convinced! By all means use it for technological interest, but I
just can't see VOIP telephony companies that charge for it, surviving.

"The Cable Guy" wrote in message
. uk...

I pay nothing for the (virtual) lines. If I wanted to replicate this on
traditional lines, I'd be paying around £50 per month just for the
rentals.
I was paying for three POTS lines. With "Free Calls" packages, I was
paying £45 per month.

You don't say how much you pay for all this via VOIP.

Perhaps I've got what you're trying to do, wrong, but I'd either go for a
bunch of cheap PAYG mobiles, or distinctive ring/callsign, or even just a
multi-handset DECT unit, with the ringtone on each handset programmed to
ring differently depending on who was calling, ie: silent for numbers you
don't know.
I had a Philips that did that, but it died and I made the mistake of
replacing it with a crappy BINatone, because it had polyphonic rings (and
£30 off). Sad, eh?

I'm obviously a bit of a nutter!

What, nutters on t'internet? In newsgroups? Unheard of!