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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

Telephone number transfer



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 26th 05, 04:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
news.rcn.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Telephone number transfer

Not sure if this is a VOIP enquiry or if anyone knows the answer to a
telecoms question

I live in New York. I have a flat in Central London. I just moved a few
hundred yards away. My octogenarian mother lives in the flat all the time

We used OneTel. Someone has connected the flat up to a new phone and BT
tried to tell us that we can't retain the number we have had for fifty
years. (OneTel told me that I can but I now can't seem to be able to contact
them by phone from New York) When I threatened to change service, BT
re-transferred the number immediately.

As a first question, is BT still completely uncompetitive with the other
carriers for telephone service or have they reduced their charges and
improved customer service as the local telephone companies have done in the
US (as soon as competitors started showing everyone how much the former
telco monopoly was overcharging)? The main advantage of Onetel was that
their international rates were unbelievably low and when I am in England and
want to use the internet, OneTel only charged me a penny a minute for the
56k internet access telephone call. (Is there any competition on this yet?)

Secondly, does anyone know if VOIP is cost effective yet in the UK to let me
use it solely as a telephone service?I use it in New York for one of three
lines, half-successfully: The line is clear about 75% of the time. Sometimes
VERY clear, other times it sounds like I am trying to speak by blowing
bubbles from the bottom of a filled swimming pool. According to articles
(and books) written by Retske, this is probably something to do with much of
the existing Internet bandwidth being multiple hop satellite, or other low
quality with a lot of propagation delay and latency. When the per leg delay
exceeds 350 msec. the circuit is not usable for voice traffic, according to
the ITU. Each satellite leg has 250 msec. Do you have these problems in the
UK or is this an American thing?

(There is, unfortunately, no chance that my mother would ever conceivably
use the broadband connection for any other purpose). She WILL have cable
television service, probably through some sort of digital service available
in her area. From New York I don't know if that service will offer VoIP (or
provide her with a VoIP router as they do in New York and connect it up for
her, - which I should add they don't do in New York yet). I actually have a
couple of spare WiFi routers I can take to London but cant figure out how to
get a telephone output from these 802.11b routers when there isn't a
telephone socket in them already

Here in New York, Broadband is reasonably inexpensive and the cost of VOIP
is LESS than the comparable cost of telephone service when you take into
account all the taxes which are added on which don't apply to internet
services (I was paying about $100 a month for telephone before I adopted
VoIP and now I pay $15 for voip plus $32 for cable modem access.


  #2  
Old October 26th 05, 06:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Fred Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Telephone number transfer

news.rcn.com wrote:

We used OneTel. Someone has connected the flat up to a new phone and BT
tried to tell us that we can't retain the number we have had for fifty
years. (OneTel told me that I can but I now can't seem to be able to contact
them by phone from New York) When I threatened to change service, BT
re-transferred the number immediately.


I don't completely follow what is happening here - and what has the
"someone" got to say about matters?
  #3  
Old October 26th 05, 08:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Alex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Telephone number transfer

want to use the internet, OneTel only charged me a penny a minute for the
56k internet access telephone call. (Is there any competition on this
yet?)


Yes, lots, although its died out alot due to broadband becoming so cheap.

Each satellite leg has 250 msec. Do you have these problems in the UK or
is this an American thing?


The I've only ever found there to be problems when the bandwidth at my end
is overloaded ie when a computer is downloading, never had a delay really
any greater than using a mobile (cell) phone.


(There is, unfortunately, no chance that my mother would ever conceivably
use the broadband connection for any other purpose). She WILL have cable
television service, probably through some sort of digital service
available in her area. From New York I don't know if that service will
offer VoIP (or provide her with a VoIP router as they do in New York and
connect it up for her, - which I should add they don't do in New York
yet). I actually have a couple of spare WiFi routers I can take to London
but cant figure out how to get a telephone output from these 802.11b
routers when there isn't a telephone socket in them already


Either
cable modem existing router mentioned above ATA and or other computers
(phone connects to ata)
or
cable modem ATA (phone connects to ata)
or
cable modem router with built in VOIP computers (phone connects to
router)

If she goes with the cable route she can ditch the landline, as if you have
ADSL here you have to pay for a land phone line aswell as the broadband
rental. Cable just charge you for cable internet and you do not have to have
the phone line, so in your case you would get TV and broadband from the
cable provider.

She will be provided with just a cable modem with ethernet connection to go
straight to her computer, no router. If you want a router you have to buy
one yourself. If you want a VOIP adapter you have to buy one yourself, but
you are then to choose whatever provider you wish for the VOIP service.
So, you need to:
1) Subscribe to cable (you get a cable modem) (Not sure who covers london,
but for example www.ntl.com provide cable, its £20ish a month for a
broadband only service. You will need at least a 1mb connection.
2) Get a VOIP adapter (ATA) either a sipura or grandstream, do a search on
this group for models or on the net, you can get one for about £40, it plugs
into the ethernet socket of the modem and you plug a normal phone line into
the ATA. If you want a computer on the internet aswell, you wil need a
router to split the connection for the ATA and the computer, else buy a
router with built in VOIP so the phone plugs straight into the router and
the computers into the router. Linksys and Draytek are companies which do
these IIRC.
3) Choose any VOIP provider and put them settings into the ATA. Sipgate will
give her a free UK geographical number for incoming calls, but charge a
pence or two a minute to call the states (it is however free to call other
people on VOIP). Other providers such as sipdiscount provide free calls to
the UK and the states (amongst others) as long as you put 5euros credit in
your account. There are lots to choose from, look through past postings from
this group to see names. The big players are sipgate, voipcheap,
sipdiscount, gradwell, voipfone, vonage to name but a few, all offer
different things so its choosing the one that suits your needs.

Here in New York, Broadband is reasonably inexpensive and the cost of VOIP
is LESS than the comparable cost of telephone service when you take into
account all the taxes which are added on which don't apply to internet
services (I was paying about $100 a month for telephone before I adopted
VoIP and now I pay $15 for voip plus $32 for cable modem access.


Not really the same here, everyone either pays £10 a month for phone line
rental, or pays approx £20 a month for a broadband connection which they can
run voip over. Taxes included, the only extras are calls. There are many
providers which offer access numebrs to call abroad for very cheap from
landlines, so much that its almost not worth getting a VOIP service for cost
of calls alone. However VOIP calls are all free which will make it worth it,
and there are some providers giving free international calls to all
traditional 'cheap' destinations (such as usa, france, australia).

You could easily pay £20 for broadband, get an ATA and use one or more
providers that do not have a monthly charge which will offer you free calls
to the states, so your total outgoing per month is £20 (+ digital cable tv
if she wants that).

Hope this lengthy reply helps.
Alex


  #4  
Old October 27th 05, 02:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
news.rcn.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Telephone number transfer

Thank you for your advice: It sounds easy enough to set up but not
particularly easy for someone who is scared of even turning a computer on
(while I am not there) to maintain: I will have to see how much her phone
bills are and take some equipment over when I next go to London. Then see if
Telewest-Broadband are offering or are going to be offering VoIP?? (the
companies here which offer digital television, broadband and telephone
service haven't dared offer VoIP yet: Probably because of the difficulties
of putting voice communications on IP before more widespread implementation
of 3G)

But are BT still as arrogantly uncompetitive as they always were
(oversimplifying slightly, AT&T, which was one of the largest companies in
the world went out of business like that here when their lies on their ads
about how cheap their service was finally stopped working) or has BT started
competing with companies like Onetel yet? Do they do 1p or free 56k
internet access calls yet?

The "someone" seems to have been someone who didn't want my mother to be
able to speak to any of her old friends or relatives (or me), so they
changed her phone number and told her that it had to be done. I called BT
from New York and they cooperated immediately in changing it back. Didn't
sound arrogant at all, assuming they have actually done it and not continued
pretending that it cant be done because it is a different exchange (which
was an excuse I seem to remember applied even in New York back in the
eighties)


"Alex" wrote in message
...
want to use the internet, OneTel only charged me a penny a minute for the
56k internet access telephone call. (Is there any competition on this
yet?)


Yes, lots, although its died out alot due to broadband becoming so cheap.

Each satellite leg has 250 msec. Do you have these problems in the UK or
is this an American thing?


The I've only ever found there to be problems when the bandwidth at my end
is overloaded ie when a computer is downloading, never had a delay really
any greater than using a mobile (cell) phone.


(There is, unfortunately, no chance that my mother would ever
conceivably use the broadband connection for any other purpose). She
WILL have cable television service, probably through some sort of digital
service available in her area. From New York I don't know if that service
will offer VoIP (or provide her with a VoIP router as they do in New York
and connect it up for her, - which I should add they don't do in New
York yet). I actually have a couple of spare WiFi routers I can take to
London but cant figure out how to get a telephone output from these
802.11b routers when there isn't a telephone socket in them already


Either
cable modem existing router mentioned above ATA and or other computers
(phone connects to ata)
or
cable modem ATA (phone connects to ata)
or
cable modem router with built in VOIP computers (phone connects to
router)

If she goes with the cable route she can ditch the landline, as if you
have ADSL here you have to pay for a land phone line aswell as the
broadband rental. Cable just charge you for cable internet and you do not
have to have the phone line, so in your case you would get TV and
broadband from the cable provider.

She will be provided with just a cable modem with ethernet connection to
go straight to her computer, no router. If you want a router you have to
buy one yourself. If you want a VOIP adapter you have to buy one yourself,
but you are then to choose whatever provider you wish for the VOIP
service.
So, you need to:
1) Subscribe to cable (you get a cable modem) (Not sure who covers london,
but for example www.ntl.com provide cable, its £20ish a month for a
broadband only service. You will need at least a 1mb connection.
2) Get a VOIP adapter (ATA) either a sipura or grandstream, do a search on
this group for models or on the net, you can get one for about £40, it
plugs into the ethernet socket of the modem and you plug a normal phone
line into the ATA. If you want a computer on the internet aswell, you wil
need a router to split the connection for the ATA and the computer, else
buy a router with built in VOIP so the phone plugs straight into the
router and the computers into the router. Linksys and Draytek are
companies which do these IIRC.
3) Choose any VOIP provider and put them settings into the ATA. Sipgate
will give her a free UK geographical number for incoming calls, but charge
a pence or two a minute to call the states (it is however free to call
other people on VOIP). Other providers such as sipdiscount provide free
calls to the UK and the states (amongst others) as long as you put 5euros
credit in your account. There are lots to choose from, look through past
postings from this group to see names. The big players are sipgate,
voipcheap, sipdiscount, gradwell, voipfone, vonage to name but a few, all
offer different things so its choosing the one that suits your needs.

Here in New York, Broadband is reasonably inexpensive and the cost of
VOIP is LESS than the comparable cost of telephone service when you take
into account all the taxes which are added on which don't apply to
internet services (I was paying about $100 a month for telephone before I
adopted VoIP and now I pay $15 for voip plus $32 for cable modem access.


Not really the same here, everyone either pays £10 a month for phone line
rental, or pays approx £20 a month for a broadband connection which they
can run voip over. Taxes included, the only extras are calls. There are
many providers which offer access numebrs to call abroad for very cheap
from landlines, so much that its almost not worth getting a VOIP service
for cost of calls alone. However VOIP calls are all free which will make
it worth it, and there are some providers giving free international calls
to all traditional 'cheap' destinations (such as usa, france, australia).

You could easily pay £20 for broadband, get an ATA and use one or more
providers that do not have a monthly charge which will offer you free
calls to the states, so your total outgoing per month is £20 (+ digital
cable tv if she wants that).

Hope this lengthy reply helps.
Alex



  #5  
Old October 27th 05, 05:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Stickems.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Telephone number transfer

Couple of points:-

NTL 1Mb is just under £10 a month
BT haven't yet woken up to the new realities.


"news.rcn.com" news.rnc.com wrote in message
...
| Thank you for your advice: It sounds easy enough to set up but not
| particularly easy for someone who is scared of even turning a computer on
| (while I am not there) to maintain: I will have to see how much her phone
| bills are and take some equipment over when I next go to London. Then see
if
| Telewest-Broadband are offering or are going to be offering VoIP?? (the
| companies here which offer digital television, broadband and telephone
| service haven't dared offer VoIP yet: Probably because of the difficulties
| of putting voice communications on IP before more widespread
implementation
| of 3G)
|
| But are BT still as arrogantly uncompetitive as they always were
| (oversimplifying slightly, AT&T, which was one of the largest companies in
| the world went out of business like that here when their lies on their ads
| about how cheap their service was finally stopped working) or has BT
started
| competing with companies like Onetel yet? Do they do 1p or free 56k
| internet access calls yet?
|
| The "someone" seems to have been someone who didn't want my mother to be
| able to speak to any of her old friends or relatives (or me), so they
| changed her phone number and told her that it had to be done. I called BT
| from New York and they cooperated immediately in changing it back. Didn't
| sound arrogant at all, assuming they have actually done it and not
continued
| pretending that it cant be done because it is a different exchange (which
| was an excuse I seem to remember applied even in New York back in the
| eighties)
|
|
| "Alex" wrote in message
| ...
| want to use the internet, OneTel only charged me a penny a minute for
the
| 56k internet access telephone call. (Is there any competition on this
| yet?)
|
| Yes, lots, although its died out alot due to broadband becoming so
cheap.
|
| Each satellite leg has 250 msec. Do you have these problems in the UK
or
| is this an American thing?
|
| The I've only ever found there to be problems when the bandwidth at my
end
| is overloaded ie when a computer is downloading, never had a delay
really
| any greater than using a mobile (cell) phone.
|
|
| (There is, unfortunately, no chance that my mother would ever
| conceivably use the broadband connection for any other purpose). She
| WILL have cable television service, probably through some sort of
digital
| service available in her area. From New York I don't know if that
service
| will offer VoIP (or provide her with a VoIP router as they do in New
York
| and connect it up for her, - which I should add they don't do in New
| York yet). I actually have a couple of spare WiFi routers I can take to
| London but cant figure out how to get a telephone output from these
| 802.11b routers when there isn't a telephone socket in them already
|
| Either
| cable modem existing router mentioned above ATA and or other
computers
| (phone connects to ata)
| or
| cable modem ATA (phone connects to ata)
| or
| cable modem router with built in VOIP computers (phone connects to
| router)
|
| If she goes with the cable route she can ditch the landline, as if you
| have ADSL here you have to pay for a land phone line aswell as the
| broadband rental. Cable just charge you for cable internet and you do
not
| have to have the phone line, so in your case you would get TV and
| broadband from the cable provider.
|
| She will be provided with just a cable modem with ethernet connection to
| go straight to her computer, no router. If you want a router you have to
| buy one yourself. If you want a VOIP adapter you have to buy one
yourself,
| but you are then to choose whatever provider you wish for the VOIP
| service.
| So, you need to:
| 1) Subscribe to cable (you get a cable modem) (Not sure who covers
london,
| but for example www.ntl.com provide cable, its £20ish a month for a
| broadband only service. You will need at least a 1mb connection.
| 2) Get a VOIP adapter (ATA) either a sipura or grandstream, do a search
on
| this group for models or on the net, you can get one for about £40, it
| plugs into the ethernet socket of the modem and you plug a normal phone
| line into the ATA. If you want a computer on the internet aswell, you
wil
| need a router to split the connection for the ATA and the computer, else
| buy a router with built in VOIP so the phone plugs straight into the
| router and the computers into the router. Linksys and Draytek are
| companies which do these IIRC.
| 3) Choose any VOIP provider and put them settings into the ATA. Sipgate
| will give her a free UK geographical number for incoming calls, but
charge
| a pence or two a minute to call the states (it is however free to call
| other people on VOIP). Other providers such as sipdiscount provide free
| calls to the UK and the states (amongst others) as long as you put
5euros
| credit in your account. There are lots to choose from, look through past
| postings from this group to see names. The big players are sipgate,
| voipcheap, sipdiscount, gradwell, voipfone, vonage to name but a few,
all
| offer different things so its choosing the one that suits your needs.
|
| Here in New York, Broadband is reasonably inexpensive and the cost of
| VOIP is LESS than the comparable cost of telephone service when you
take
| into account all the taxes which are added on which don't apply to
| internet services (I was paying about $100 a month for telephone before
I
| adopted VoIP and now I pay $15 for voip plus $32 for cable modem
access.
|
|
| Not really the same here, everyone either pays £10 a month for phone
line
| rental, or pays approx £20 a month for a broadband connection which they
| can run voip over. Taxes included, the only extras are calls. There are
| many providers which offer access numebrs to call abroad for very cheap
| from landlines, so much that its almost not worth getting a VOIP service
| for cost of calls alone. However VOIP calls are all free which will make
| it worth it, and there are some providers giving free international
calls
| to all traditional 'cheap' destinations (such as usa, france,
australia).
|
| You could easily pay £20 for broadband, get an ATA and use one or more
| providers that do not have a monthly charge which will offer you free
| calls to the states, so your total outgoing per month is £20 (+ digital
| cable tv if she wants that).
|
| Hope this lengthy reply helps.
| Alex
|
|
|


  #6  
Old October 27th 05, 10:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
news.rcn.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Telephone number transfer

Yes, I take your point and agree. But I suspect she is already connecting
up to TElewest for her cable television service: If all I need is VOIP with
only VERY occasional use of any internet service, surely 2MB would suffice
and using some VOIP service would be a whole lot less expensive than a
telephone company?


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:11:58 -0400, "news.rcn.com" news.rnc.com
wrote:

Then see if
Telewest-Broadband are offering or are going to be offering VoIP??

You don't want voip from TW it takes them all their time to keep the
services they are offering at present serviceable 24/7 . the speed
upgrades are a laugh there are customers complaining in the BY news
groups who where on 4Mb and after the speed increase to 10 Mb they are
now hardly attaining speeds of 2 Mb .




  #7  
Old October 28th 05, 07:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Deag
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Telephone number transfer


"news.rcn.com" news.rnc.com wrote in message
...
Yes, I take your point and agree. But I suspect she is already connecting
up to TElewest for her cable television service: If all I need is VOIP
with only VERY occasional use of any internet service, surely 2MB would
suffice and using some VOIP service would be a whole lot less expensive
than a telephone company?


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:11:58 -0400, "news.rcn.com" news.rnc.com
wrote:

Then see if
Telewest-Broadband are offering or are going to be offering VoIP??

You don't want voip from TW it takes them all their time to keep the
services they are offering at present serviceable 24/7 . the speed
upgrades are a laugh there are customers complaining in the BY news
groups who where on 4Mb and after the speed increase to 10 Mb they are
now hardly attaining speeds of 2 Mb .


You could look at VOIP from www.freetalk.co.uk I am finding them pretty
reliable, and setting it up was easy. You can buy the boxes from
www.dixons.co.uk search for Freetalk.



  #8  
Old November 1st 05, 10:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Thomas Rankin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Telephone number transfer

news.rcn.com wrote:


I actually have a
couple of spare WiFi routers I can take to London but cant figure out how to
get a telephone output from these 802.11b routers when there isn't a
telephone socket in them already

You may want to check if you are allowed to use the ei-fi routers in the uk.
The band allocation isn't the same between the two countries (and is
vastly different for 802.11a), and some routers have export restrictions
on them (although motsly these are routers that don't have regional
settings in them or support 802.11a without supporting 802.11b, these
are freely available in america but can't be used at all in the the
whole of europe (last I heard) ).

Here in New York, Broadband is reasonably inexpensive and the cost of VOIP
is LESS than the comparable cost of telephone service when you take into
account all the taxes which are added on which don't apply to internet
services (I was paying about $100 a month for telephone before I adopted
VoIP and now I pay $15 for voip plus $32 for cable modem access.

Sounds silly, have you tried one of the free (no monthly rental) UK VOIP
providers?

It's not impossible that the latency will be pretty low, most traffic
from the US goes via sub-atlantic cabling rather than sat which used to
make the US nearer than france as far as internet traffic is concerned.
  #9  
Old November 9th 05, 03:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
news.rcn.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Telephone number transfer

Stickems says NTL is a tenner a month: I wonder whether I can get some sort
of VOIP with my old number in some way? I now learn that BT refuse to
connect me to the old telephone number at the new address. VOIP in the US
touts itself as offering precisely this ability: They say you can use any
telephone number from any area code in any state

Sounds silly, have you tried one of the free (no monthly rental) UK VOIP
providers?


Who are they? All my spare routers are 80211b (Netgear MR814)


 




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