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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

why the high traffic?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 31st 05, 09:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default why the high traffic?

Why is this newsgroup so active?

In Germany, my ISP (1&1, a member of United Internet) offers VOIP at no
extra charge for DSL customers. I have a DSL flatrate for EUR 10 per
month, and pay EUR 25 per month for a 6016/512 downstream/upstream
connection (and, in another flat, EUR 10 for a flatrate and EUR 17 for a
1024/128 connection). VOIP costs 1 cent per minute to land lines in
Germany. I spent about 85 cents last month.

For EUR 10 per month, one can have a VOIP flatrate to land lines in
Germany. Obviously, this requires about half an hour on the phone per
day to make it worthwhile.

I haven't tried it yet on the 1024/128 line (what do people here
think?), but on the fast line I notice no difference in quality compared
to the ISDN connection (which I still have, though I could get rid of
it).

For mobile phones and foreign countries, call-by-call companies are
cheaper than the VOIP rate of 1&1 (though these call-by-call folks might
use VOIP behind the scenes, for all I know). However, with a
combination
modem/bridge/switch/router/authenticator/encapsulator/telephone adapter,
one can specify whether VOIP or ISDN should be used, based on the first
however many digits of a number. (One can override this by typing, say,
#121* before the number and one can also default one phone to VOIP and
one to ISDN.)

All this took less than an hour to set up, and it JUST WORKS. Thus, I'm
wondering whether the situation in the UK is more complicated, producing
so much traffic in this group.

There is talk of DSL connections being offered independently of
telephone connections. I might go this route. At the moment, I like to
keep ISDN so that I can still use the phone if there is a problem with
the DSL connection, but this is rare and in any case for real
emergencies I can use my mobile.

  #3  
Old October 31st 05, 11:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default why the high traffic?

Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
Why is this newsgroup so active?

In Germany, my ISP (1&1, a member of United Internet) offers VOIP at
no extra charge for DSL customers. I have a DSL flatrate for EUR 10
per month, and pay EUR 25 per month for a 6016/512
downstream/upstream connection (and, in another flat, EUR 10 for a
flatrate and EUR 17 for a 1024/128 connection). VOIP costs 1 cent
per minute to land lines in Germany. I spent about 85 cents last
month.

For EUR 10 per month, one can have a VOIP flatrate to land lines in
Germany. Obviously, this requires about half an hour on the phone
per day to make it worthwhile.


EUR 10 a month is a lot to pay for phone service if all you're getting
is calls to landlines. If you do call landlines for at least half an
hour a day, Sipgate will do 1000 minutes a month for EUR 8.90. Otherwise
you'd be better off with broadband and running a separate SIP account.

I haven't tried it yet on the 1024/128 line (what do people here
think?), but on the fast line I notice no difference in quality
compared to the ISDN connection (which I still have, though I could
get rid of it).


What would Telekom charge you for the line if you kept ADSL, but without
telephone service?

For mobile phones and foreign countries, call-by-call companies are
cheaper than the VOIP rate of 1&1 (though these call-by-call folks
might use VOIP behind the scenes, for all I know).


We call it 'carrier selection'.

However, with a combination
modem/bridge/switch/router/authenticator/encapsulator/telephone
adapter, one can specify whether VOIP or ISDN should be used, based
on the first however many digits of a number. (One can override this
by typing, say, #121* before the number and one can also default one
phone to VOIP and one to ISDN.)

All this took less than an hour to set up, and it JUST WORKS. Thus,
I'm wondering whether the situation in the UK is more complicated,
producing so much traffic in this group.


Basically the same. Except that carrier select calls don't appear on
your BT bill. You get billed directly by the carrier selected for your
calls.

There is talk of DSL connections being offered independently of
telephone connections. I might go this route. At the moment, I like
to keep ISDN so that I can still use the phone if there is a problem
with the DSL connection, but this is rare and in any case for real
emergencies I can use my mobile.


Maybe you can put your phone on a budget tariff, although this is more
likely to be possible with a POTS line than with ISDN.
  #4  
Old November 1st 05, 06:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default why the high traffic?

In article , Chris
writes:

For EUR 10 per month, one can have a VOIP flatrate to land lines in
Germany. Obviously, this requires about half an hour on the phone
per day to make it worthwhile.


EUR 10 a month is a lot to pay for phone service if all you're getting
is calls to landlines. If you do call landlines for at least half an
hour a day, Sipgate will do 1000 minutes a month for EUR 8.90.


That's about the same price.

Otherwise
you'd be better off with broadband and running a separate SIP account.


For EUR 10, you could be on the phone 24 hours a day (to land lines);
half an hour per day is the break-even point if the rate is 1 cent per
minute.

For new customers, they are now offering the land-line flate rate for
free for the first year.

I haven't tried it yet on the 1024/128 line (what do people here
think?),


Apparently VOIP consumes about 1 MB/minute. That's about 70 kb/s in
each direction, which I suppose leaves about 60 kb/s for the normal
internet connection with a 1024/128 line.

but on the fast line I notice no difference in quality
compared to the ISDN connection (which I still have, though I could
get rid of it).


What would Telekom charge you for the line if you kept ADSL, but without
telephone service?


That's not possible at the moment:

There is talk of DSL connections being offered independently of
telephone connections. I might go this route. At the moment, I like
to keep ISDN so that I can still use the phone if there is a problem
with the DSL connection, but this is rare and in any case for real
emergencies I can use my mobile.


Due to some pressure from the EU, the Telekom will probably soon be
required to offer DSL independently of a conventional telephone
connection. (Originally, it was offered only in conjunction with ISDN.
Of course, neither makes technical sense. It's all about trying to
increase revenues, one of the bad effects of privatisation. I think one
should either have the state run things with no need to make a profit OR
have things private with real competition. Private things without
competition are a recipe for disaster. With the telephone system, we
will probably see real competition soon. With the trains, real
competition is probably not possible, since one can't have separate
tracks, train stations etc, so I think that train service will continue
to deteriorate as it has since privatisation, whereas telephone service
will probably become better as competition increases.)

Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?

It IS possible here, but not from the Telekom, but by companies which
operate completely independently of the Telekom (almost all DSL
connections are from the Telekom, though many are resold through other
providers, which doesn't matter technically but can be a plus in terms
of service, especially if one company is responsible for everything).
Most houses have 4 wires but the Telekom only uses 2, so another company
can set up a DSL (or other) connection on the other 2 wires,
independently of the Telekom with no need for rewiring the house.

When I checked about 3 years ago, the best I found was 384/384 for about
EUR 80 per month. That might be vastly cheaper now, I don't know.

However, with a combination
modem/bridge/switch/router/authenticator/encapsulator/telephone
adapter, one can specify whether VOIP or ISDN should be used, based
on the first however many digits of a number. (One can override this
by typing, say, #121* before the number and one can also default one
phone to VOIP and one to ISDN.)

All this took less than an hour to set up, and it JUST WORKS. Thus,
I'm wondering whether the situation in the UK is more complicated,
producing so much traffic in this group.


Basically the same. Except that carrier select calls don't appear on
your BT bill. You get billed directly by the carrier selected for your
calls.


Here, they still appear on the Telekom bill. The Telekom is required to
do this in return for the monopoly it still has in some areas.

Still, if everything works fine, why the high traffic in the group?

  #5  
Old November 1st 05, 07:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Alan J. Flavell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default why the high traffic?

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:

Apparently VOIP consumes about 1 MB/minute. That's about 70 kb/s in
each direction,


That would be dominated by the G.711 codec, which uses 64kb/s
each way.

which I suppose leaves about 60 kb/s for the normal
internet connection with a 1024/128 line.


Normal uplink speed in the UK seems to be 256 - we get quite a fair
H.323 videoconference at that speed (it's best if the end points can
negotiate a more efficient audio codec than G.711, though, leaving
more bandwidth for the video).

Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?


For home Internet access, you mean? (As opposed to business-class
leased lines and stuff...). I don't know the exact answer to that, but
it's not something I've encountered. Most broadband provision in the
UK is either ADSL over analogue phone line, or Cable TV. The only
folks I know who got broadband without anything else, got cable TV
without the TV, if you see what I mean.

  #6  
Old November 1st 05, 08:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Brian A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,037
Default why the high traffic?

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:37:22 +0000, "Alan J. Flavell"
wrote:



Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?


Yes if you get it from Telewest cable.
Currently BT don't do it but lots of people would just love it if it
was available.


Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
 




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