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uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) (uk.comp.home-networking) Discussion of all aspects of computer networking in the home, regardless of the platforms, software, topologies and protocols used. Examples of topics include recommendations for hardware or suppliers (e.g. NICs and cabling), protocols, servers, and specific network software. Advertising is not allowed.

LAN between two buildings



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 26th 05, 11:55 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
Chris Laird
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default LAN between two buildings

A local business wants to extends an existing network from one Portakabin
to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the two
Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp getting into
the cable or what a lightning strike might do the equipment or anyone
unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.

I also thought about fibre but I don't know much about it and the cost
would probably be too high.


So I think that leaves me with two possible solutions:

1. power line networking (but I'm not really sure if this would work
between buildings)


2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a 54g
access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough signal to
talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open ground?
  #2  
Old January 26th 05, 12:27 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
themanwhocan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default LAN between two buildings


"Chris Laird" wrote in message
.88...
A local business wants to extends an existing network from one Portakabin
to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the two
Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp getting into
the cable or what a lightning strike might do the equipment or anyone
unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.

I also thought about fibre but I don't know much about it and the cost
would probably be too high.


So I think that leaves me with two possible solutions:

1. power line networking (but I'm not really sure if this would work
between buildings)


2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a 54g
access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough signal to
talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open ground?


Hi Chris

They would probable see each other over that distance but I doubt you would
get 54mbps. External hi gain antennas are relatively cheap nowdays though,
so I would consider that option.

David.


  #3  
Old January 26th 05, 12:55 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default LAN between two buildings

"themanwhocan" wrote in message
...

"Chris Laird" wrote in message
.88...
A local business wants to extends an existing network from one Portakabin
to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the two
Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp getting

into
the cable or what a lightning strike might do the equipment or anyone
unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.

I also thought about fibre but I don't know much about it and the cost
would probably be too high.


So I think that leaves me with two possible solutions:

1. power line networking (but I'm not really sure if this would work
between buildings)


2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a 54g
access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough signal to
talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open ground?


Hi Chris

They would probable see each other over that distance but I doubt you

would
get 54mbps. External hi gain antennas are relatively cheap nowdays though,
so I would consider that option.

David.



Do they own the ground? Cat5e external grade cable is about 130.00 for
305m from companies such as Videk http://www.videkonline.co.uk. No
association, I just get their catalogues. You should be able to string it,
or lay conduit and bury is without much bother I would imagine.

Paul DS.


  #4  
Old January 26th 05, 01:00 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
Jim Howes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default LAN between two buildings

Chris Laird wrote:
A local business wants to extends an existing network from one Portakabin
to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the two
Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp getting into
the cable or what a lightning strike might do the equipment or anyone
unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.


Damp isn't a problem if you use the right cable, and provide proper
ducting. It's far more likely to get pranged, caught by vehicles, eaten
by birds, etc.

As for lightning, you can get surge protection with RJ45 ports, such as
Belkin's F9G726uk3M-GRY, which provides 7 surge protected mains outlets,
telephone, RJ45 connectors, 6000V, 90kA protection, unlimited
connected-equipment-warranty, plus data recovery warranty.
451-5736 49.98 at RS

Alternatively, there's 451-5708, cheaper at 34.99, with 6 mains,
telephone and RJ45 connectors, 6000V, 45kA, 100,000 connected equipment
warranty, for 34.99

I also thought about fibre but I don't know much about it and the cost
would probably be too high.


Fibre is expensive, and requires some funky tooling to do it right
(although in many cases you can do it wrong and it will still work..)

So I think that leaves me with two possible solutions:

1. power line networking (but I'm not really sure if this would work
between buildings)


Problem here is if it does work, it would probably work between your two
buildings and several other buildings too.

2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a 54g
access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough signal to
talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open ground?


External antennae would be ideal, depending on your portacabin's
structure. You may be able to get away with sticking them on
windowsills, etc. You also need _RADIO_ line of sight. This is utterly
different to normal line of sight, and is rather difficult to explain
without going into fresnel zones and so forth. To summarise, think of a
rugby ball or US Football, with the two pointy ends being your two
antennae. The rest of the ball is the area you need to keep clear of
radio obstacles (the occasional tree branch is ok, but anything more
substantial, and you will have so much fun[1] trying to get it to work
reliably..)

If you don't have much clearance, you can narrow the signal path by
using things like yagi antennae.

If, on the other hand, you are at two ends of a field, with nothing in
between, then you'll probably find that the supplied antennae work fine.
Mucking about with high gain directional antennae is rarely required in
such cases.

So, I think you'd be better off with ducted cat5, with surge protection
and a switch at both ends. Far cheaper than a lot of other options.

Jim

[1] This is possibly a strage usage of the word 'fun' that you
previously hadn't experienced.
  #5  
Old January 26th 05, 04:29 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
RichGK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default LAN between two buildings


"Chris Laird" wrote in message
.88...
A local business wants to extends an existing network from one Portakabin
to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the two
Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp getting into
the cable or what a lightning strike might do the equipment or anyone
unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.


100 Yards is the very maximum distance for CAT5 ethernet, for a full
capacity network you'd need a repeater half way, unless running at the lower
10Mbps is acceptable. Our PCs that operate at 100 yards are problematic!

2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a 54g
access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough signal to
talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open ground?


I would have though so.


  #6  
Old January 27th 05, 08:57 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
stephen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 50
Default LAN between two buildings


"RichGK" wrote in message
...

"Chris Laird" wrote in message
.88...
A local business wants to extends an existing network from one

Portakabin
to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the two
Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp getting

into
the cable or what a lightning strike might do the equipment or anyone
unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.


100 Yards is the very maximum distance for CAT5 ethernet, for a full
capacity network you'd need a repeater half way, unless running at the

lower
10Mbps is acceptable. Our PCs that operate at 100 yards are problematic!


then you have a wiring problem. 100m is the worst case limit for Cat 5, and
allows for marginal cable, not so good installation, worst case inducted
noise and interference and worst case equipment plugged into it.

1000s of building have runs that approach 100m and everything just works -
which means that in practice there is a lot of slack built into the
standard.

if you have a lot of problems i suggest you get someone in to test the
cabling system, and if you have a warrated system, look at whether the
guarantee will get it sorted for you.

If the OP doesnt want to use Cat5 - then he could buy a pre terminated
length of fibre and use that - but the connectors are delicate and dont like
dirt.

whichever cable type is used, you want it well away from children, vehicles
and other common sources of destruction - buried in a pipe or duct is often
best.

2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a 54g
access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough signal to
talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open ground?


I would have though so


--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs


  #7  
Old January 28th 05, 07:21 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking,uk.comp.homebuilt
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default LAN between two buildings

As others have noted, environment (ie dampness) creates no
problems if proper cable is selected. Also properly
recommended is the plastic pipe option that makes future
cabling possible. Still the cable must be rated for burial
even if inside that pipe.

100 meters should never be a problem for networking IF the
terminating equipment is properly constructed and the wiring
is proper. To meet the 100 meter requirement, terminating
equipment is designed to exceed 100 meters.

Advisable to consider cat 6 wire. From experience in new
homes, the cat 6 wire is going to be necessary in the near
future. Of make the pipes large enough (with intermediate
access holes) so that Cat 6 wire can be installed later.

No one mentioned this most critical point. Each end of that
cable must enter the building at the buildings single point
ground. That far building is a lightning rod for computers in
this building. A lightning strike anywhere on that building
could find earth ground, destructively, via computers in this
building. To avoid this failure, earth each end of any
interbuilding wire at each building's single point earth
ground - either by hardwire connection (coax cable) or via
surge protectors (ethernet, telephone, AC electric). This is
how telcos have installed phone lines for generations - a
principle that old and that necessary.

Transient damage is often directly traceable to wire and
earthing failures. This figure from an industry professional
(a provider of surge protector products) demonstrates the most
important part is not even sold by them - earth:

http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf

Notice the surge entering the building on a buried phone
line. Ethernet is same.

Wireless across that distance will not provide the bandwidth
without careful installation. It too can be done, but must
learn and struggle with more than you realize, based upon
information here.

Chris Laird wrote:
A local business wants to extends an existing network from one
Portakabin to another about 100 yards away.

I briefly considered just running a long length of CAT5 between the
two Portakabins but discounted this because of worries about damp
getting into the cable or what a lightning strike might do the
equipment or anyone unlucky enough to be next to it at the time.

I also thought about fibre but I don't know much about it and the
cost would probably be too high.

So I think that leaves me with two possible solutions:

1. power line networking (but I'm not really sure if this would work
between buildings)

2. wireless networking

Without much experience of wi-fi kit, can anyone tell me if I had a
54g access point in each Portakabin would they see a strong enough
signal to talk to each other over 100 yards of relatively open
ground?

  #8  
Old January 28th 05, 02:31 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
deKay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 171
Default LAN between two buildings

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Fri, 28 Jan
2005 02:21:52 -0500, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
uk.comp.home-networking, yawatina tan reek esk w_tom
fornis do marikano es bono tan el:

As others have noted, environment (ie dampness) creates no
problems if proper cable is selected. Also properly
recommended is the plastic pipe option that makes future
cabling possible. Still the cable must be rated for burial
even if inside that pipe.


Gah! It is possible to mention lightning or surge protectors *without*
summoning w_tom?!


Does he search Google Groups every day for those magic words?

deKay
--
+ Lofi Gaming - www.lofi-gaming.org.uk
|- ugvm Magazine - www.ugvm.org.uk
|- My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
|- "CLART - YOU KNOWS IT"
  #9  
Old January 28th 05, 03:21 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default LAN between two buildings

Notice no one mentioned how cables are connected between
buildings - as telcos have been doing for generations. Why
did you not address this obvious discrepancy? If concepts
were commonly understood, others would have raised this point
two days ago. No one posted how signal wires between two
buildings must be routed. And yet it is critical to avoid
computer and network damage. Why did you not provide that
information? Were you waiting for the OP to first suffer
damage?

Why did you let a critical fact go unmentioned when clearly
the OP requires that information up front and during his
planning? That is the first question you should have asked
because that is information the OP was asking for. I make no
apologies for the fact that you failed to warn the OP of how
to install a network cable between two buildings.

deKay wrote:
Gah! It is possible to mention lightning or surge protectors *without*
summoning w_tom?!

Does he search Google Groups every day for those magic words?

  #10  
Old January 28th 05, 03:48 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
deKay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 171
Default LAN between two buildings

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Fri, 28 Jan
2005 10:21:28 -0500, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
uk.comp.home-networking, yawatina tan reek esk w_tom
fornis do marikano es bono tan el:

Why did you let a critical fact go unmentioned when clearly
the OP requires that information up front and during his
planning? That is the first question you should have asked
because that is information the OP was asking for. I make no
apologies for the fact that you failed to warn the OP of how
to install a network cable between two buildings.


What does that have to do with me or my post? How is it my fault if anything
happens to the OP?


deKay
--
+ Lofi Gaming - www.lofi-gaming.org.uk
|- ugvm Magazine - www.ugvm.org.uk
|- My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
|- "CLART - YOU KNOWS IT"
 




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