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uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) (uk.comp.home-networking) Discussion of all aspects of computer networking in the home, regardless of the platforms, software, topologies and protocols used. Examples of topics include recommendations for hardware or suppliers (e.g. NICs and cabling), protocols, servers, and specific network software. Advertising is not allowed.

Strange IP routing (?)



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 10th 05, 07:49 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Anton Gˇsen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default Strange IP routing (?)

I've posted this to the NDO user forum but I might as well post it here
as well.........

Please help me understand what is going on as I am going to lose sleep
if I don't get an explaination to this!

OK, I have a network in my home, as I'm sure lots of other people
reading this do. Fair enough. Nothing special. There are only 2 or 3
computers on the network, using the 192.168.0.x IP address range, and
255.255.255.0 as the subnet. The network works fine - exactly how I want
it to.

The other day I bought a second-hand wireless application point, which I
think is faulty (but that's another matter altogether). So, I downloaded
a program called Angry IP Scanner to try and find out what IP address
it's using. I set it to scan all addresses from 192.168.0.0 to
192.168.255.255, as you do.

The scanner detected the computers on my network, but also computers on
strange IP addresses such as 192.168.3.19, for example. I know for a
fact that there is no computer on my network wth the IP address
192.168.3.19. There are lots in the 192.168.3.x range, and also quite a
few in the 192.168.7.x range, for example 192.168.7.2. I didn't let the
program scan the whole range of IP addresses but I'm sure that if I had,
it would have found many more of these. None of these are the access
point - the light on my network switch that the access point is
connected to doesn't even light up when the access point is connected
and switched on (and it's not a faulty patch cable, but like I said
before, that's another matter entirely).

Anyway, I did some tracerouting and this is what I got.

Tracing route to 192.168.3.19 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms ipcop.workgroup [192.168.0.1]
2 1835 ms 2003 ms 2046 ms ndoltd1-hg3.ilford.broadband.bt.net [217.47.119.
202]
3 1521 ms 1116 ms 1065 ms 217.47.119.162
4 1425 ms 1395 ms 1789 ms 217.47.119.234
5 1677 ms 1559 ms 1910 ms perseus-fa-0-0-5.ision.net.uk [195.7.228.35]
6 1982 ms 1899 ms 1741 ms 192.168.3.19

Trace complete.

and

Tracing route to 192.168.7.2 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms ipcop.workgroup [192.168.0.1]
2 1612 ms 1677 ms 1818 ms ndoltd1-hg3.ilford.broadband.bt.net [217.47.119.
202]
3 1547 ms 1780 ms 1910 ms 217.47.119.161
4 1722 ms 1830 ms 1753 ms 217.47.119.234
5 1376 ms 1171 ms 1743 ms perseus-fa-0-0-5.ision.net.uk [195.7.228.35]
6 1754 ms 1968 ms 1886 ms pheme-fa-2-0.ision.net.uk [195.7.224.237]
7 1721 ms 1456 ms 1553 ms thn2-gi-0-3.ndo.com [195.7.224.250]
8 1685 ms 1710 ms 1584 ms 192.168.7.2

Trace complete.

Ignore the high pings.

From this I can only conclude that I am pinging an IP address on
another NDO customer's private network. But, BY DEFINITION the IP
addresses in question are private IP addresses, and I shouldn't be able
to ping them.

So what is going on? Is anyone else able to ping these IPs? I'm
completely stumped. PLEASE can someone give me an explaination as to
what is going on?

Thanks in advance!
  #2  
Old February 10th 05, 08:40 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
mikeFNB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default Strange IP routing (?)

don't know about BT but NTL have UBR's etc on theirs
so arnt they the same think but for BT?

mike

"Anton Gˇsen" wrote in
message ...
I've posted this to the NDO user forum but I might as well post it here
as well.........

Please help me understand what is going on as I am going to lose sleep
if I don't get an explaination to this!

OK, I have a network in my home, as I'm sure lots of other people
reading this do. Fair enough. Nothing special. There are only 2 or 3
computers on the network, using the 192.168.0.x IP address range, and
255.255.255.0 as the subnet. The network works fine - exactly how I want
it to.

The other day I bought a second-hand wireless application point, which I
think is faulty (but that's another matter altogether). So, I downloaded
a program called Angry IP Scanner to try and find out what IP address
it's using. I set it to scan all addresses from 192.168.0.0 to
192.168.255.255, as you do.

The scanner detected the computers on my network, but also computers on
strange IP addresses such as 192.168.3.19, for example. I know for a
fact that there is no computer on my network wth the IP address
192.168.3.19. There are lots in the 192.168.3.x range, and also quite a
few in the 192.168.7.x range, for example 192.168.7.2. I didn't let the
program scan the whole range of IP addresses but I'm sure that if I had,
it would have found many more of these. None of these are the access
point - the light on my network switch that the access point is
connected to doesn't even light up when the access point is connected
and switched on (and it's not a faulty patch cable, but like I said
before, that's another matter entirely).

Anyway, I did some tracerouting and this is what I got.

Tracing route to 192.168.3.19 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms ipcop.workgroup [192.168.0.1]
2 1835 ms 2003 ms 2046 ms ndoltd1-hg3.ilford.broadband.bt.net [217.47.119.
202]
3 1521 ms 1116 ms 1065 ms 217.47.119.162
4 1425 ms 1395 ms 1789 ms 217.47.119.234
5 1677 ms 1559 ms 1910 ms perseus-fa-0-0-5.ision.net.uk [195.7.228.35]
6 1982 ms 1899 ms 1741 ms 192.168.3.19

Trace complete.

and

Tracing route to 192.168.7.2 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms ipcop.workgroup [192.168.0.1]
2 1612 ms 1677 ms 1818 ms ndoltd1-hg3.ilford.broadband.bt.net [217.47.119.
202]
3 1547 ms 1780 ms 1910 ms 217.47.119.161
4 1722 ms 1830 ms 1753 ms 217.47.119.234
5 1376 ms 1171 ms 1743 ms perseus-fa-0-0-5.ision.net.uk [195.7.228.35]
6 1754 ms 1968 ms 1886 ms pheme-fa-2-0.ision.net.uk [195.7.224.237]
7 1721 ms 1456 ms 1553 ms thn2-gi-0-3.ndo.com [195.7.224.250]
8 1685 ms 1710 ms 1584 ms 192.168.7.2

Trace complete.

Ignore the high pings.

From this I can only conclude that I am pinging an IP address on
another NDO customer's private network. But, BY DEFINITION the IP
addresses in question are private IP addresses, and I shouldn't be able
to ping them.

So what is going on? Is anyone else able to ping these IPs? I'm
completely stumped. PLEASE can someone give me an explaination as to
what is going on?

Thanks in advance!



  #3  
Old February 10th 05, 09:14 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Anton Gˇsen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default Strange IP routing (?)

mikeFNB wrote:

don't know about BT but NTL have UBR's etc on theirs
so arnt they the same think but for BT?

mike


Sorry to sound like a dickhead but what's a UBR?
  #4  
Old February 10th 05, 11:14 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Alex Fraser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 553
Default Strange IP routing (?)

"Anton Gˇsen" wrote in
message ...
mikeFNB wrote:
don't know about BT but NTL have UBR's etc on theirs
so arnt they the same think but for BT?


Sorry to sound like a dickhead but what's a UBR?


It's not really relevant, but in this case UBR stands for Universal
Broadband Router, which is what Cisco call their CMTS (Cable Modem
Termination System) equipment. In other words, it's what cable modems talk
to.

Mike's point is that NTL use private IP addresses within their network (for
cable modems and UBRs), and it seems to me that a few other ISPs do too (for
various things). It's impossible to say why you
are able to reach private addresses, and you shouldn't be able to reach them
(I can't, BTW), but the machines that respond are not necessarily a
customer's. If you're really that interested, search for information on
routing protocols and consider what might happen if there is a
misconfiguration.

Alex


  #5  
Old February 11th 05, 08:06 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Strange IP routing (?)

UBR is not related to the actual question.
What Anton is facing is actually a neighbor who has access to those
networks with WEP disabled. Anton - see whether you can ping 3.1
address ? If you can, then you are able to reach your neighbor's
wireless access point. Neighbor won't have proper SSID as well.

- Chandar

  #7  
Old February 11th 05, 10:38 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Anton Gˇsen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default Strange IP routing (?)

Anton Gˇsen wrote:

This is what I'm trying to say, it's not another network because (a) the
access point doesn't work and (b) my PCI wireless NIC doesn't detect any
wireless networks in range, other than my laptop, when it's on (which it
wasn't).

I can ping 192.168.3.1 and the ping times are about 15-20ms, which would
be the typical ping to another user on my ISP.


Another things, the traceroutes show that the path to these addresses
are being routed through my IPCop firewall and then through my ISP, it
would seem.
  #8  
Old February 11th 05, 10:48 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Anton Gˇsen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default Strange IP routing (?)

Alex Fraser wrote:

It's not really relevant, but in this case UBR stands for Universal
Broadband Router, which is what Cisco call their CMTS (Cable Modem
Termination System) equipment. In other words, it's what cable modems talk
to.


Like a DSLAM? I am using ADSL FWIW.

Mike's point is that NTL use private IP addresses within their network (for
cable modems and UBRs), and it seems to me that a few other ISPs do too (for
various things). It's impossible to say why you
are able to reach private addresses, and you shouldn't be able to reach them
(I can't, BTW), but the machines that respond are not necessarily a
customer's. If you're really that interested, search for information on
routing protocols and consider what might happen if there is a
misconfiguration.


I see, but I would have thought that pings to 192.168.x.x addresses
wouldn't have been routed through the IPCop box in the first place. I
haven't got anything special configured on the IPCop box - just a PCI
ADSL modem and an ethernet card to provide routing and firewalling.

Thanks Alex. I'm still baffled, though. What occured to me is what would
happen if I was to change the IP address of a machine on my network to
one of these addresses. Not that I can really be arsed finding out,
because I'd have to change the IP address of the IPCop box as well for
it to be on the same subnet as the machine I'm using now (I think, I'm
no expert on subnets).

Anton
  #9  
Old February 11th 05, 01:55 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Dave J
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 321
Default Strange IP routing (?)

In within uk.comp.home-networking,
'Alex Fraser' wrote:

Mike's point is that NTL use private IP addresses within their network (for
cable modems and UBRs), and it seems to me that a few other ISPs do too (for
various things). It's impossible to say why you
are able to reach private addresses, and you shouldn't be able to reach them
(I can't, BTW), but the machines that respond are not necessarily a
customer's. If you're really that interested, search for information on
routing protocols and consider what might happen if there is a
misconfiguration.


The thing I would find worrying is that packets are finding their way back
to Anton's network. It's (as you say) fairly normal for ISPs to let you
route _to_ their private network space (though I consider it a bit dozy)
but I wouldn't be too keen on finding a route back, into my private IP
range..

An interesting question (well two actually) is what would happen if Anton
had chosen to use 192.168.0.0/16? IP clashes?

Also what services are running on the live hosts, that'd give some clue as
to what they are. To Anton, have you tried a full scan? It can't be a
problem as you have every right to scan your 'own' IP range..

--
Dave Johnson -
  #10  
Old February 12th 05, 02:16 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Anton Gˇsen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default Strange IP routing (?) - an answer

The following was posted by a member of NDO staff on the NDO user's
message board:........


Hello,

The 192.168.x.y addresses are management interfaces for the odd piece of
NDO kit, only available from within the NDO network (they aren't on
another customers network). It saves and conserves IP address space by
using these address ranges for devices that do not require an internet
connection, but need to be communicated with.

You wonít be able to do anything with them (just like you canít do
anything with any other IP on the internet). Likewise they will not
cause any problems, even if you overlap your own internal IP range with
these ranges. This is because your local router will use NAT to convert
your private IP addresses to a public address before it sends the data
to the NDO network, effectively making all other networks (and NDO's
network) see you as the public address only.

To be tidy, youíll find that you canít see these devices any more - not
that it was a problem them being available in the first place.




So...there we have it.

Anton
 




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