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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Bonded Broadband Hardware



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 5th 06, 11:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Paul Edwards
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

Hi

We are setting up a new satelite office in an area which only has 512K
broadband available and we also need a fast upload speed to our main office.

After looking at various options we thought we would go for bonded broadband
as we also want to use IP phones. We would want to bond 4 adsl lines.

So the question is what hardware do we need to achieve the bonded solution
and how easy is it to set up?

My boss wants to stay with our current isp who do not yet offer a bonded
solution so we won't get any help off them.

I have seen that we could download a Linux solution but the most popular
seems to be a Cisco 2610xm router with option cards in. Does anyone know
what cards we would need (I presume 2 x WIC-1ADSL which is only 2 adsl
sockets so that is confusing)? I have set up Cisco routers in the past so
have half an idea of whats involved but not set a solution like this.

Also how would a vpn be handled given that we have 4 lines with 4 IP
addressess when a vpn is ip to ip.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Paul Edwards


  #2  
Old April 5th 06, 11:35 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alastair
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Posts: 194
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

"Paul Edwards" wrote in message
...
Hi

We are setting up a new satelite office in an area which only has 512K
broadband available and we also need a fast upload speed to our main
office.

After looking at various options we thought we would go for bonded
broadband as we also want to use IP phones. We would want to bond 4 adsl
lines.

So the question is what hardware do we need to achieve the bonded solution
and how easy is it to set up?

My boss wants to stay with our current isp who do not yet offer a bonded
solution so we won't get any help off them.

I have seen that we could download a Linux solution but the most popular
seems to be a Cisco 2610xm router with option cards in. Does anyone know
what cards we would need (I presume 2 x WIC-1ADSL which is only 2 adsl
sockets so that is confusing)? I have set up Cisco routers in the past so
have half an idea of whats involved but not set a solution like this.

Also how would a vpn be handled given that we have 4 lines with 4 IP
addressess when a vpn is ip to ip.

Any help would be most appreciated.


For a true bi-directional bonded solution you will need the ISP to
participate.
Try http://aaisp.net and look at the Firebrick product.

We currently have 3x2Mbps lines bonded using an aaisp/firebrick aolution and
it works well. All lines participate in the same IP block, VPN shouldn't be
an issue though we don't use it any more ourselves.


  #3  
Old April 5th 06, 12:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Stirling
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Posts: 807
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

Alastair wrote:
"Paul Edwards" wrote in message
...
Hi

We are setting up a new satelite office in an area which only has 512K
broadband available and we also need a fast upload speed to our main
office.

snip
For a true bi-directional bonded solution you will need the ISP to
participate.
Try http://aaisp.net and look at the Firebrick product.

We currently have 3x2Mbps lines bonded using an aaisp/firebrick aolution and
it works well. All lines participate in the same IP block, VPN shouldn't be
an issue though we don't use it any more ourselves.


But, not for a satellite office, where you can have your own hardware at
each end, for that, any ISP may work well, assuming quotas et al match.

(I don't know of hardware)
  #4  
Old April 5th 06, 03:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Rob Walker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware


"Paul Edwards" wrote in message
...
Hi

We are setting up a new satelite office in an area which only has 512K
broadband available and we also need a fast upload speed to our main
office.

After looking at various options we thought we would go for bonded
broadband as we also want to use IP phones. We would want to bond 4 adsl
lines.

So the question is what hardware do we need to achieve the bonded solution
and how easy is it to set up?

My boss wants to stay with our current isp who do not yet offer a bonded
solution so we won't get any help off them.

I have seen that we could download a Linux solution but the most popular
seems to be a Cisco 2610xm router with option cards in. Does anyone know
what cards we would need (I presume 2 x WIC-1ADSL which is only 2 adsl
sockets so that is confusing)? I have set up Cisco routers in the past so
have half an idea of whats involved but not set a solution like this.

Also how would a vpn be handled given that we have 4 lines with 4 IP
addressess when a vpn is ip to ip.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Paul Edwards


As far as I know you'll need the ISP to be involved. I've set them up
through Nildram before who charge about 10 a month extra for the bonding
service. They use Cisco routers at their end to allow the lines to
effectively become one and have the same IP or IP range. We've used small
cisco routers for two lines and the larger rackmount models for 4 - (I
forget the exact models). Works well but remember that at some point the
lines WILL go down and leave you high and dry. If you rely on these for
everything, you need to accept that there may be a few days where you just
can't work.


  #5  
Old April 5th 06, 04:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PhilT
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Posts: 391
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

Paul Edwards wrote:
We are setting up a new satelite office in an area which only has 512K
broadband available and we also need a fast upload speed to our main office.


with the recent launch of MaxDSL your assumption may no longer hold.
Max Premium offers "up to 832k upload" on a single line and the
downstream is very likely to be more than 512k as Max does rate
adaption. Even the Home version of Max has "up to 448k" upstream.

After looking at various options we thought we would go for bonded broadband
as we also want to use IP phones. We would want to bond 4 adsl lines.
So the question is what hardware do we need to achieve the bonded solution
and how easy is it to set up?


A PC with the downloaded Linux image from
http://www.freestuffjunction.co.uk/out.php?id=1940 and four Snagoma
modems would do. But I doubt you still need 4.

My boss wants to stay with our current isp who do not yet offer a bonded
solution so we won't get any help off them.


no MLPPP bonding for you then. Try
http://www.sharedband.com/index2.html which is ISP independent.

http://www.xifos.net/dsl.php
http://www.ukfsn.org/adsl/bonded.html

Also how would a vpn be handled given that we have 4 lines with 4 IP
addressess when a vpn is ip to ip.


4 lines with MLPPP bonding only have one single IP address. We run
three 2M lines into one fo the above pseudo-open-source routers.

Phil

  #6  
Old April 5th 06, 06:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jason Clifford
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Posts: 100
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

On 5 Apr 2006, Ian Stirling wrote:

But, not for a satellite office, where you can have your own hardware at
each end, for that, any ISP may work well, assuming quotas et al match.


That's not correct.

For bonded broadband you need an ISP that support MLPPP on their broadband
product. Otherwise you only have multiple separate connections which means
you don't get the benefits of bonding.

We offer bonded ADSL services.

We have some customers using Sangoma ADSL cards (which we sell) with
our unmanaged solution and others using Cisco routers which are supplied
with the managed solution.

Both work well.

Jason Clifford
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  #7  
Old April 5th 06, 06:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jason Clifford
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

On 5 Apr 2006, PhilT wrote:

We are setting up a new satelite office in an area which only has 512K
broadband available and we also need a fast upload speed to our main office.


with the recent launch of MaxDSL your assumption may no longer hold.
Max Premium offers "up to 832k upload" on a single line and the
downstream is very likely to be more than 512k as Max does rate
adaption. Even the Home version of Max has "up to 448k" upstream.


If he can only get 512K on his line he is very unlikely to get a
significant increase in upload speeds by switching the the MAX product.

Jason Clifford
--
UKFSN.ORG Finance Free Software while you surf the 'net
http://www.ukfsn.org/ up to 8Mb ADSL Broadband from just 14.98
http://www.linuxadsl.co.uk/ ADSL Routers from just 21.98

  #8  
Old April 6th 06, 01:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Stirling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 807
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

Jason Clifford wrote:
On 5 Apr 2006, Ian Stirling wrote:

But, not for a satellite office, where you can have your own hardware at
each end, for that, any ISP may work well, assuming quotas et al match.


That's not correct.

For bonded broadband you need an ISP that support MLPPP on their broadband
product. Otherwise you only have multiple separate connections which means
you don't get the benefits of bonding.


No, you don't.
You need enough bandwidth between the two points, and some hardware bond
the channels at each end.
The OP explicitly said that it was to run a VPN to a remote office.

At the satellite office, you have a smart router, that presents the VPN
at one end, and connects to many ADSL modems. (or has them internally).

This simply splits the traffic over the VPN between the ADSL links,
possibly prioritising some based on quotas.

Then the reverse at the other end.
This has no downside over a proper MLPPP solution, for VPN links.
You only need MLPPP if you require high bandwidth to the net as a whole.
  #9  
Old April 6th 06, 03:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PhilT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware


Jason Clifford wrote:
If he can only get 512K on his line he is very unlikely to get a
significant increase in upload speeds by switching the the MAX product.


disagree. There are so many times the BT checker undershot the mark
that the "can only get 512k" message is no firm indication of what the
line is actually capable of and even that is only a reference to
downstream - most lines show a healthy SNR margin for upstream and the
early reports from MaxDSL users are all showing the full 400k+ upload.

Lines listed as "1M only" are capable of over 5 Meg down and 1M up, for
example.


Phil

  #10  
Old April 6th 06, 07:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 331
Default Bonded Broadband Hardware

Ian Stirling wrote:

You need enough bandwidth between the two points, and some hardware bond
the channels at each end.
The OP explicitly said that it was to run a VPN to a remote office.

At the satellite office, you have a smart router, that presents the VPN
at one end, and connects to many ADSL modems. (or has them internally).

This simply splits the traffic over the VPN between the ADSL links,
possibly prioritising some based on quotas.

Then the reverse at the other end.
This has no downside over a proper MLPPP solution, for VPN links.
You only need MLPPP if you require high bandwidth to the net as a whole.


http://www.firebrick.co.uk/faq-bonding.html

That's well worth a read, if a little biased.

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