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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Max ADSL and domestic wiring



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 14th 06, 02:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Wylie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring


Summary: Optimising your domestic phone wiring can increase your
Max ADSL bandwidth by 10%

Technical details:
ADSL modem: SpeedTouch 510, firmware version 4.3.2.6.0

Distance from exchange: 500m

Before upgrading to Max ADSL, my wiring was as follows:

+--------------+ +---------+ +----------+
| BT Connector | | Master | | Four way |
exchange --- | Block |-----| Socket |--| Adaptor |
| | | | | |
+--------------+ +---------+ +----------+
| |
/ \
/ +-------+
/ | micro |
/ | filter|
/ +-------+
/ \
+--------+ \
| Socket | |
| | |
+--------+ |
| |
+-------+ |
| micro | |
| filter| |
+-------+ +--------+
/ | | Socket |
/ | | |
+-------+ +---------+ +--------+
| ADSL | | two way | |
| modem | | adaptor | |
+-------+ +---------+ |
/ | |
/ | |
+-------+ +--------+ +--------+
| 56k | | DECT | | Phone |
| modem | | Phone | | |
+-------+ +--------+ +--------+


The ADSL modem was at the end of an about 5m extension.

The BT Connector block consists of an IDC connector for the incoming
cable, labelled A and B, two black waisted cylindrical capacitor-like
objects, marked

6
222K
9

and a three way screw terminal block, marked A and B, the central
terminal being unused. It bears the legend "RC 910 140 01" Any ideas
what this is? Is it likely to be reducing my bandwidth?


First, I ran a length of cat-5 from the computer room to near the
Master Socket and moved the ADSL modem down, plugging a microfilter
into the socket, and a 4 way adaptor and the ADSL modem into the
microfilter. I left unplugged the phone extension that ran to the
computer room and a DECT phone and an old 56k modem.

The bandwidth improved from 2816 Kbit/s to 3104.

I then cleaned (Scotch-brite and a squirt of contact cleaner) and
re-tightened the corroded wires in the screw terminals of the
connector block. The bandwidth improved from 3104 to 3296.

I then plugged the extension to the DECT phone back into the 4 way
adaptor, dispensing with the 2nd microfilter, and unplugging the 56k
modem.

Bandwidth then reduced from 3296 to 3200.


Downstream Margin Attn Power Bandwidth
Before Max ADSL 20 16 14.5 576
After Max ADSL 6.5 54 17.5 2816
After move 6 55 18 3104
After clean 5 55 18 3296
With DECT phone 4.5 55 18 3200


--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #2  
Old April 14th 06, 02:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Spin Dryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:18:23 +0100, [Alan J. Wylie] said :-


Summary: Optimising your domestic phone wiring can increase your
Max ADSL bandwidth by 10%

Technical details:
ADSL modem: SpeedTouch 510, firmware version 4.3.2.6.0



Don't put the adsl modem through a microfilter at all - it doesn't
need it, so if you can plug that straight into any phone socket.
Typically, a pstn modem lead can be used from the adsl modem into a
phone socket.
  #3  
Old April 14th 06, 03:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
m
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

Hi Alan

Usually the best (and most sanitary way) to do your installation is to
change the lower half faceplate on the NTE5 (this is quite legal) using
a filtered faceplate. (Easily obtainable now)This is what BT do when
their engineers are called out to make broadband work in marginal areas.

Then connect all the xtension cables/socket to the insertion
displacement connectors on the back of the new faceplate.If necessary to
a new (SLAVE) socket next to it.

Than get a very long (if necessary) RJ11 extension cable and plug your
modem directly into the ADSL socket on the front of the master socket.
Any telephones will then not need the filters as that is done internally
in the new faceplate.

If you cant get a long RJ11, it is possible to bodge something but the
important thing is to get teh ADSL signal off as soon as possible.

One of the problems that people get is that unless the ADSL signal is
split as soon as possible on entry, it goes everywhere!! also each
filter can cause what is called a 'standing wave' where some of the
signal is actually reflected back and can interfere with itself, causing
slowdown!!

You will however always find that wherever you put your 56k modem you
will only get slow speeds (about 30k) due to the filters and the fact
that the ADSL equipment in the exchange can mess up the residual digital
signals that the 56k modems use.

Also don't be tempted to try putting the 56k modem directly to the BT
line without filters as the ADSL data from your PC to the world will
interfere with the speech/56k modem and probably stop the 56k modem
working at all.

Mike

Alan J. Wylie wrote:
Summary: Optimising your domestic phone wiring can increase your
Max ADSL bandwidth by 10%

Technical details:
ADSL modem: SpeedTouch 510, firmware version 4.3.2.6.0

Distance from exchange: 500m

Before upgrading to Max ADSL, my wiring was as follows:

+--------------+ +---------+ +----------+
| BT Connector | | Master | | Four way |
exchange --- | Block |-----| Socket |--| Adaptor |
| | | | | |
+--------------+ +---------+ +----------+
| |
/ \
/ +-------+
/ | micro |
/ | filter|
/ +-------+
/ \
+--------+ \
| Socket | |
| | |
+--------+ |
| |
+-------+ |
| micro | |
| filter| |
+-------+ +--------+
/ | | Socket |
/ | | |
+-------+ +---------+ +--------+
| ADSL | | two way | |
| modem | | adaptor | |
+-------+ +---------+ |
/ | |
/ | |
+-------+ +--------+ +--------+
| 56k | | DECT | | Phone |
| modem | | Phone | | |
+-------+ +--------+ +--------+


The ADSL modem was at the end of an about 5m extension.

The BT Connector block consists of an IDC connector for the incoming
cable, labelled A and B, two black waisted cylindrical capacitor-like
objects, marked

6
222K
9

and a three way screw terminal block, marked A and B, the central
terminal being unused. It bears the legend "RC 910 140 01" Any ideas
what this is? Is it likely to be reducing my bandwidth?


First, I ran a length of cat-5 from the computer room to near the
Master Socket and moved the ADSL modem down, plugging a microfilter
into the socket, and a 4 way adaptor and the ADSL modem into the
microfilter. I left unplugged the phone extension that ran to the
computer room and a DECT phone and an old 56k modem.

The bandwidth improved from 2816 Kbit/s to 3104.

I then cleaned (Scotch-brite and a squirt of contact cleaner) and
re-tightened the corroded wires in the screw terminals of the
connector block. The bandwidth improved from 3104 to 3296.

I then plugged the extension to the DECT phone back into the 4 way
adaptor, dispensing with the 2nd microfilter, and unplugging the 56k
modem.

Bandwidth then reduced from 3296 to 3200.


Downstream Margin Attn Power Bandwidth
Before Max ADSL 20 16 14.5 576
After Max ADSL 6.5 54 17.5 2816
After move 6 55 18 3104
After clean 5 55 18 3296
With DECT phone 4.5 55 18 3200



  #4  
Old April 14th 06, 03:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Wylie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:45:13 +0100, Spin Dryer said:

Don't put the adsl modem through a microfilter at all - it doesn't
need it, so if you can plug that straight into any phone socket.
Typically, a pstn modem lead can be used from the adsl modem into a
phone socket.


Clarification: it's a splitter/microfilter - it has two sockets: a
431a for the phone and a RJ11 for the modem. All the circuit diagrams
and descriptions I can find suggest that the RJ11 is connected
straight through.

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #5  
Old April 14th 06, 03:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Wylie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:07:31 +0100, m said:

Usually the best (and most sanitary way) to do your installation is
to change the lower half faceplate on the NTE5 (this is quite legal)
using a filtered faceplate. (Easily obtainable now)This is what BT
do when their engineers are called out to make broadband work in
marginal areas.


Than get a very long (if necessary) RJ11 extension cable and plug
your modem directly into the ADSL socket on the front of the master
socket.


I moved the ADSL modem down next to the master socket, and now run TCP
over CAT5 to the computers. It's now plugged into the RJ11 socket
(which should be straight through) of a microfilter, which is then
plugged into the master socket.

How much difference in terms of bandwidth might a top-of-the-range
filtered faceplate make?

If you cant get a long RJ11, it is possible to bodge something but
the important thing is to get teh ADSL signal off as soon as
possible.


That's what I've just done: get the ADSL modem as close as possible to
the exchange, and isolate everything else, including all the extension
runs on the other side of a microfilter.

You will however always find that wherever you put your 56k modem
you will only get slow speeds (about 30k) due to the filters and the
fact that the ADSL equipment in the exchange can mess up the
residual digital signals that the 56k modems use.


I only intend to use it in cases of emergency. Fortunately, my ISP
(Zen) doesn't seem to suffer from the same problems that afflict some
others that I could mention. They *do*, however, provide a back-up
dial in account, just in case.


--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #6  
Old April 14th 06, 03:40 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Spin Dryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:21:50 +0100, [Alan J. Wylie] said :-

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:45:13 +0100, Spin Dryer said:

Don't put the adsl modem through a microfilter at all - it doesn't
need it, so if you can plug that straight into any phone socket.
Typically, a pstn modem lead can be used from the adsl modem into a
phone socket.


Clarification: it's a splitter/microfilter - it has two sockets: a
431a for the phone and a RJ11 for the modem. All the circuit diagrams
and descriptions I can find suggest that the RJ11 is connected
straight through.


Granted, but as it's an extra bit of kit in the link - try without
  #8  
Old April 14th 06, 08:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

The BT Connector block consists of an IDC connector for the incoming
cable, labelled A and B, two black waisted cylindrical
capacitor-like objects, marked


6 222K 9


and a three way screw terminal block, marked A and B, the central
terminal being unused. It bears the legend "RC 910 140 01" Any ideas
what this is? Is it likely to be reducing my bandwidth?


I've tracked down what this is: it's an "80A RF2" connection
block. This has "two RF filters to reduce radio interference on
telephone line".

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/connection_boxes.htm

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/BT80A_RF2.jpg

What effect will these inductors have on an ADSL connection? It can't
be good.



They will knacker it!

Peter Crosland


  #9  
Old April 14th 06, 11:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Beaky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:46:11 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

The BT Connector block consists of an IDC connector for the incoming
cable, labelled A and B, two black waisted cylindrical
capacitor-like objects, marked


6 222K 9


and a three way screw terminal block, marked A and B, the central
terminal being unused. It bears the legend "RC 910 140 01" Any ideas
what this is? Is it likely to be reducing my bandwidth?


I've tracked down what this is: it's an "80A RF2" connection
block. This has "two RF filters to reduce radio interference on
telephone line".

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/connection_boxes.htm

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/BT80A_RF2.jpg

What effect will these inductors have on an ADSL connection? It can't
be good.



They will knacker it!

Peter Crosland


To see if they are attenuating the ADSL signal, short each of them out
with a jumper wire. When you have done that, pick up a phone and
listen to see if you can hear a radio station. These filters are
normally inserted where a customer is picking up radio transmissions
on his phone line due to close proximity to a transmitter.

If shorting them out does improve your broadband speed, you may have
to choose between faster broadband or a quiet phone line.
  #10  
Old April 14th 06, 11:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Flavell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default Max ADSL and domestic wiring

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006, Beaky wrote:

These filters are normally inserted where a customer is picking up
radio transmissions on his phone line due to close proximity to a
transmitter.


That figgers...

If shorting them out does improve your broadband speed, you may have
to choose between faster broadband or a quiet phone line.


Surely the ADSL splitter will shield the *telephone* from any
picked-up RF interference? The ADSL router, on the other hand, *will*
have to cope with the RF. Haven't had to deal with this situation
myself, but it stands to reason that these coils will be detrimental
to the ADSL signal and ought to be removed (relying instead on the
filter in the ADSL splitter to keep the RF away from the telephone).

But if the coils are on the BT side of the master socket, then
strictly speaking the customer should not interfere with them.
 




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