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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Router power surge problems



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 9th 06, 03:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Router power surge problems

After a lightning strike my dynamode wireless adsl router could not
connect to the internet or to my PC through cable. Connecting the
ethernet cable from the router to a laptop worked although, still not
connection to the internet.
After a whole load of basic troubleshooting from BT and a million
things that i tried i eventually got to this stage:

Using a adsl USB modem i can connect to the internet. (Rules out line
faults)
PC does not connect to router via cable (ethernet card fried
presumably?)
Laptop can connect to router via cable and wirelessly.

I have done a hard reset of the router and entered all the settings in
again but this did not fix it.

After some research i have seen that ethernet cards can be damaged by
these power surges so i assume there is no way to repair them?
Although I still cant work out why the router cant connect to the
internet! Maybe just some part of the router that connects to the
internet has been damaged and is then irrepairable?

Answers to any/all of these questions would be greatly appreciated!



Martin
UK

  #3  
Old May 9th 06, 04:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
gort
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Router power surge problems


After some research i have seen that ethernet cards can be damaged by
these power surges so i assume there is no way to repair them?
Although I still cant work out why the router cant connect to the
internet! Maybe just some part of the router that connects to the
internet has been damaged and is then irrepairable?


Maybe and I would say its more a certainty its f****d.

Dave
  #4  
Old May 10th 06, 03:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Router power surge problems

I have repaired NICs. But fact that you are asking suggests you
don't have sufficient knowledge or equipment.

NICs typically have protection up to 2000 volts. If transients were
earthed before entering a building, then that 2000 volts protection
would not have been overwhelmed. Lightning seeks earth ground. If not
provided a short (low impedance) earthing connection where phone line
or AC electric line enters a building (the service entrance), then
lightning will find other destructive paths. That would have happened
in your case. Voltage rises as much as necessary to find earth. That
means voltage exceeded 2000 volts - because a lower voltage path was
not at the building service entrance.

The British standard for this solution is BS6651 and summarized in:
http://www.keison.co.uk/bowthorpe/do...on%20Guide.pdf
http://www.telecom-protect-tech.co.uk/tp_lprotect.shtml
Notice what is common and essential to every effective solution:
earthing. An effective protector makes that less than 3 meter
connection to a single point earth ground.

Chances are ethernet card diagnostics execute OK in all first tests.
IOW motherboard computer talks just fine to NIC computer. But that
final test involves two ethernet cards talking to each other via
interface IC and transformer. There is often where NICs are surge
damaged. For further information, get and execute the NIC's
comprehensive hardware diagnostic. Windows does not provide hardware
diagnostics; only provides software diagnostic.

wrote:
After a lightning strike my dynamode wireless adsl router could not
connect to the internet or to my PC through cable. Connecting the
ethernet cable from the router to a laptop worked although, still not
connection to the internet.
After a whole load of basic troubleshooting from BT and a million
things that i tried i eventually got to this stage:

Using a adsl USB modem i can connect to the internet. (Rules out line
faults)
PC does not connect to router via cable (ethernet card fried
presumably?)
Laptop can connect to router via cable and wirelessly.

I have done a hard reset of the router and entered all the settings in
again but this did not fix it.

After some research i have seen that ethernet cards can be damaged by
these power surges so i assume there is no way to repair them?
Although I still cant work out why the router cant connect to the
internet! Maybe just some part of the router that connects to the
internet has been damaged and is then irrepairable?

Answers to any/all of these questions would be greatly appreciated!


  #5  
Old May 10th 06, 11:30 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Router power surge problems

Thanks for the reply. I am a student studying computing/engineering so
my knowledge is limited!!
I wasn't thinking before, but I actually have spare ethernet cards
lying about so that shouldnt be a problem any more when i replace it.

The problem is the adsl modem inside the Dynamode wireless router (Im
pretty sure). Repairing it may be beyond me but any information that
could allow me to do this would be appreciated. Otherwise, just even
the knowledge that that part of the router can be repaired so that I
can take it to a shop to be repaired. Id rather repair than buy a new
one.

I know one of my options is to use software to share the internet
connection and use the router to do so when ive got the ethernet card
working on the PC, but this isnt a good solution for me!



Thanks for the replies.

  #6  
Old May 11th 06, 12:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Router power surge problems

Simply tracing a failure - without fixing it - is a significant
educational tool. Don't just assume a destructive transient 'crashes
on and burns out' an IC. Electricity does not 'crash' on ICs like an
ocean wave. First transient current passes through everything in a
complete circuit. Then something in that path fails. Get datasheets
for that interface transformer. Note its breakdown voltage. Once
voltage exceeds breakdown, then transformer primary and secondary
become electrically connected. This is how that transient path was
created and is traced.

Stand back to determine where the transient would have entered and
left the modem. For example, was a cable lying on baseboard heater?
Then electrical path could be through cable insulation. What is
breakdown voltage for that cable - to determine what may be a likely
path?

How did transient pass through router? Incoming on AC electric?
Then outgoing might be through router motherboard digital ground;
through interface IC, and outgoing to earth on phone cable via
insulation. Notice transient was on router motherboard. But since
there was no outgoing path through other ICs, then other ICs were not
damaged.

A DSL side failure, for example, could be incoming on phone line and
outgoing on AC mains (or visa versa). UK phones typically have no
earthed 'whole house' protector meaning that a shortest path to earth
is via router. Modem's phone port should have galvanic isolation (ie a
transformer) - protection required inside all electronics. Transient
protection that can be overwhelmed if transient was not earthed before
entering a building.

Learn not to fix a modem. Instead learn how failure happens. We
don't repair to save money - which is why repair shops only fix by
swapping assemblies; which is why modems are not repaired. We repair
at IC level only to learn. Best evidence is a dead body. That
knowledge has value not measured in monetary terms or manhours. Just
learning how to trace failure with an oscilloscope and datasheets is a
powerful lesson.

Martin wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I am a student studying computing/engineering so
my knowledge is limited!!
I wasn't thinking before, but I actually have spare ethernet cards
lying about so that shouldnt be a problem any more when i replace it.

The problem is the adsl modem inside the Dynamode wireless router (Im
pretty sure). Repairing it may be beyond me but any information that
could allow me to do this would be appreciated. Otherwise, just even
the knowledge that that part of the router can be repaired so that I
can take it to a shop to be repaired. Id rather repair than buy a new
one.

I know one of my options is to use software to share the internet
connection and use the router to do so when ive got the ethernet card
working on the PC, but this isnt a good solution for me!


  #7  
Old May 11th 06, 12:53 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Router power surge problems

Simply tracing a failure - without fixing it - is a significant
educational tool. Don't just assume a destructive transient 'crashes
on and burns out' an IC. Electricity does not 'crash' on ICs like an
ocean wave. First transient current passes through everything in a
complete circuit. Then something in that path fails. Get datasheets
for that interface transformer. Note its breakdown voltage. Once
voltage exceeds breakdown, then transformer primary and secondary
become electrically connected. This is how that transient path was
created and is traced.

Stand back to determine where the transient would have entered and
left the modem. For example, was a cable lying on baseboard heater?
Then electrical path could be through cable insulation. What is
breakdown voltage for that cable - to determine what may be a likely
path?

How did transient pass through router? Incoming on AC electric?
Then outgoing might be through router motherboard digital ground;
through interface IC, and outgoing to earth on phone cable via
insulation. Notice transient was on router motherboard. But since
there was no outgoing path through other ICs, then other ICs were not
damaged.

A DSL side failure, for example, could be incoming on phone line and
outgoing on AC mains (or visa versa). UK phones typically have no
earthed 'whole house' protector meaning that a shortest path to earth
is via router. Modem's phone port should have galvanic isolation (ie a
transformer) - protection required inside all electronics. Transient
protection that can be overwhelmed if transient was not earthed before
entering a building.

Learn not to fix a modem. Instead learn how failure happens. We
don't repair to save money - which is why repair shops only fix by
swapping assemblies; which is why modems are not repaired. We repair
at IC level only to learn. Best evidence is a dead body. That
knowledge has value not measured in monetary terms or manhours. Just
learning how to trace failure with an oscilloscope and datasheets is a
powerful lesson.

Martin wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I am a student studying computing/engineering so
my knowledge is limited!!
I wasn't thinking before, but I actually have spare ethernet cards
lying about so that shouldnt be a problem any more when i replace it.

The problem is the adsl modem inside the Dynamode wireless router (Im
pretty sure). Repairing it may be beyond me but any information that
could allow me to do this would be appreciated. Otherwise, just even
the knowledge that that part of the router can be repaired so that I
can take it to a shop to be repaired. Id rather repair than buy a new
one.

I know one of my options is to use software to share the internet
connection and use the router to do so when ive got the ethernet card
working on the PC, but this isnt a good solution for me!


  #8  
Old May 11th 06, 12:55 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Router power surge problems

Simply tracing a failure - without fixing it - is a significant
educational tool. Don't just assume a destructive transient 'crashes
on and burns out' an IC. Electricity does not 'crash' on ICs like an
ocean wave. First transient current passes through everything in a
complete circuit. Then something in that path fails. Get datasheets
for that interface transformer. Note its breakdown voltage. Once
voltage exceeds breakdown, then transformer primary and secondary
become electrically connected. This is how that transient path was
created and is traced.

Stand back to determine where the transient would have entered and
left the modem. For example, was a cable lying on baseboard heater?
Then electrical path could be through cable insulation. What is
breakdown voltage for that cable - to determine what may be a likely
path?

How did transient pass through router? Incoming on AC electric?
Then outgoing might be through router motherboard digital ground;
through interface IC, and outgoing to earth on phone cable via
insulation. Notice transient was on router motherboard. But since
there was no outgoing path through other ICs, then other ICs were not
damaged.

A DSL side failure, for example, could be incoming on phone line and
outgoing on AC mains (or visa versa). UK phones typically have no
earthed 'whole house' protector meaning that a shortest path to earth
is via router. Modem's phone port should have galvanic isolation (ie a
transformer) - protection required inside all electronics. Transient
protection that can be overwhelmed if transient was not earthed before
entering a building.

Learn not to fix a modem. Instead learn how failure happens. We
don't repair to save money - which is why repair shops only fix by
swapping assemblies; which is why modems are not repaired. We repair
at IC level only to learn. Best evidence is a dead body. That
knowledge has value not measured in monetary terms or manhours. Just
learning how to trace failure with an oscilloscope and datasheets is a
powerful lesson.

Martin wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I am a student studying computing/engineering so
my knowledge is limited!!
I wasn't thinking before, but I actually have spare ethernet cards
lying about so that shouldnt be a problem any more when i replace it.

The problem is the adsl modem inside the Dynamode wireless router (Im
pretty sure). Repairing it may be beyond me but any information that
could allow me to do this would be appreciated. Otherwise, just even
the knowledge that that part of the router can be repaired so that I
can take it to a shop to be repaired. Id rather repair than buy a new
one.

I know one of my options is to use software to share the internet
connection and use the router to do so when ive got the ethernet card
working on the PC, but this isnt a good solution for me!


  #9  
Old May 11th 06, 07:40 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,472
Default Router power surge problems

On Wed, 10 May 2006 23:55:23 UTC, "w_tom" wrote:

Simply tracing a failure - without fixing it - is a significant


It's bad enough that you witter on so much with your North American
version.

But to post it THREE times...
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]
  #10  
Old May 11th 06, 09:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Gaz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 648
Default Router power surge problems

Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2006 23:55:23 UTC, "w_tom" wrote:

Simply tracing a failure - without fixing it - is a significant


It's bad enough that you witter on so much with your North American
version.

But to post it THREE times...


yeah, but you posted in html...........

Gaz


 




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