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MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 27th 06, 03:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Benje
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!

Ok stats from my router:

SNR Margin 10.9 23.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.1 27.5 dB
Errored Seconds 3252 200
Loss of Signal 6 6
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 62 6
Data Rate 1760 448 kbps
Latency INTERLEAVED INTERLEAVED


Is there anyway I can reverse the MaxDsl upgrade as previously I had a rock
solid 1mbps and now plusnets speed test is reporting a mere 700Kbps :-(

I am stuck now? Anyway I can improve this? When I was upgraded it was
synching at 4mbps but now it has slowly got worse and worse!

Cheers

Ben


  #2  
Old May 27th 06, 03:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!


"Benje" wrote in message
...
Ok stats from my router:

SNR Margin 10.9 23.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.1 27.5 dB
Errored Seconds 3252 200
Loss of Signal 6 6
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 62 6
Data Rate 1760 448 kbps
Latency INTERLEAVED INTERLEAVED


Is there anyway I can reverse the MaxDsl upgrade as previously I had a
rock
solid 1mbps and now plusnets speed test is reporting a mere 700Kbps :-(

I am stuck now? Anyway I can improve this? When I was upgraded it was
synching at 4mbps but now it has slowly got worse and worse!

Cheers

Ben


What did the company tell you when you asked them?


  #3  
Old May 27th 06, 03:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Benje
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!


"Mal" wrote in message
...

"Benje" wrote in message
...
Ok stats from my router:

SNR Margin 10.9 23.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.1 27.5 dB
Errored Seconds 3252 200
Loss of Signal 6 6
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 62 6
Data Rate 1760 448 kbps
Latency INTERLEAVED INTERLEAVED


Is there anyway I can reverse the MaxDsl upgrade as previously I had a
rock
solid 1mbps and now plusnets speed test is reporting a mere 700Kbps :-(

I am stuck now? Anyway I can improve this? When I was upgraded it was
synching at 4mbps but now it has slowly got worse and worse!

Cheers

Ben


What did the company tell you when you asked them?



It went through automatically, so technically I never asked for it to be
done, although I admit I didn't do anything to stop them as I was genuinely
expecting an improvement!!

Ben


  #4  
Old May 27th 06, 04:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Flavell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower thanbefore?!

On Sat, 27 May 2006, Benje wrote:

(you post with a tesco address, but via plusnet's server: presumably
you -are- a Plusnet customer, yes?)

Ok stats from my router:

SNR Margin 10.9 23.0 dB


If your quoted figures are typical, you ought to be able to get a
somewhat better downstream line speed. MaxDSL usually aims for about
7dB margin. Maybe your line quality changes over the course of the
day, though. You haven't said what line speed you had before.

Data Rate 1760 448 kbps
Latency INTERLEAVED INTERLEAVED


Is there anyway I can reverse the MaxDsl upgrade


Before you go wishing for the wrong thing, perhaps you would do better
to try to understand what you've got. How long has this situation
existed for you?

as previously I had a rock solid 1mbps


I've *never* seen a "rock solid" series of speed test results. Every
one is different, and they can vary over a factor of more than 3 from
one test to another.

and now plusnets speed test is reporting a mere 700Kbps :-(


But first, what's your BRAS report saying?

According to the handy table in http://www.aaisp.net.uk/maxatm.html
your line speed of 1760 should qualify you for a BRAS setting of
1.5M. What does Plusnet say to you at
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate ?

I am stuck now?


People are finding that if the speed test throughput is /way/ below
the BRAS speed (initially mine was around 2000, even though the BRAS
was 5500 or 6000), then it may improve slowly with time. I've now
seen throughputs of over 3k, occasionally over 3.5k, but it took many
weeks before it got there.

Anyway I can improve this?


Improve what, though? Based on what you say below, it may be that
you're looking for the wrong problem:

When I was upgraded it was synching at 4mbps but now it has slowly
got worse and worse!


Well, that's quite a different story, isn't it? Can you really not
tell the difference between the ADSL line speed and the speed-tester
throughput? With the SNR margin of 10.9dB that you reported above,
there is *no way* you could get a working 4M line speed. You need to
be looking at least for any local line problems which have developed.
Temporarily disconnect everything at the linebox, plug your ADSL
router into the internal socket, with nothing else connected, and see
what you get. Depending on the results, decide what to do next, or
report results here and ask for advice. You're certainly going to be
wasting your time (and everyone else's) bleating about wanting to go
back to non-Maxed, in the face of that kind of line problem.

Your posting seemed to show all the hallmarks of starting from a
pre-judged wrong conclusion, and only working slowly back to your real
problem, and missing out some key bits of information. What /was/
your line speed before Max-ing, and what SNR and attenuation were you
getting at that time? That might help to reach some useful conclusion
about whether your line conditions have significantly degraded since -
unrelated to the change to MaxDSL.
  #5  
Old May 27th 06, 08:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Benje
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!


"Alan J. Flavell" wrote in message
. gla.ac.uk...
On Sat, 27 May 2006, Benje wrote:

(you post with a tesco address, but via plusnet's server: presumably
you -are- a Plusnet customer, yes?)

Ok stats from my router:

SNR Margin 10.9 23.0 dB


If your quoted figures are typical, you ought to be able to get a
somewhat better downstream line speed. MaxDSL usually aims for about
7dB margin. Maybe your line quality changes over the course of the
day, though. You haven't said what line speed you had before.


Wow what a reply, OK. I'm on plusnet but my reply to address is my tesco
account as this already get's spammed to death, I use it for newsgroups. I
posted previously before I was moved to MaxDsl worrying about my current
router info (Remember this was from before the upgrade to MaxDsl)

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin 21.3 29.0 dB
Line Attenuation 52.9 27.5 dB
Errored Seconds 166 40
Loss of Signal 1 1
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 199 50
Data Rate 1152 288 kbps
Latency FAST FAST


So above is the data from my router before moving to maxdsl and the last 9
speed tests I did at this connection speed showed a solid 970Kbps d/l +/- 50
Kbps


Data Rate 1760 448 kbps
Latency INTERLEAVED INTERLEAVED


Is there anyway I can reverse the MaxDsl upgrade


Before you go wishing for the wrong thing, perhaps you would do better
to try to understand what you've got. How long has this situation
existed for you?


Well it was upgraded about 4 weeks ago, however as I work away a lot of the
time I couldnt really put an exact time on when the speeds took a turn for
the worse, it was only today when I checked my router.

as previously I had a rock solid 1mbps


I've *never* seen a "rock solid" series of speed test results. Every
one is different, and they can vary over a factor of more than 3 from
one test to another.


I've never had them differ by a factor of three before, see above the last 9
before the upgrade were all within approx 50Kbps of each other.

and now plusnets speed test is reporting a mere 700Kbps :-(


But first, what's your BRAS report saying?

According to the handy table in http://www.aaisp.net.uk/maxatm.html
your line speed of 1760 should qualify you for a BRAS setting of
1.5M. What does Plusnet say to you at
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate ?


Didnt know that existed, that reports 200Kbps.


I am stuck now?


People are finding that if the speed test throughput is /way/ below
the BRAS speed (initially mine was around 2000, even though the BRAS
was 5500 or 6000), then it may improve slowly with time. I've now
seen throughputs of over 3k, occasionally over 3.5k, but it took many
weeks before it got there.

Anyway I can improve this?


Improve what, though? Based on what you say below, it may be that
you're looking for the wrong problem:


Improve the overall speed of the connection, doing another test just came in
at around 100 Kbps

When I was upgraded it was synching at 4mbps but now it has slowly
got worse and worse!


Well, that's quite a different story, isn't it? Can you really not
tell the difference between the ADSL line speed and the speed-tester
throughput? With the SNR margin of 10.9dB that you reported above,
there is *no way* you could get a working 4M line speed.


Obviously not, although it was showing it connecting at 4mbps, stupid me hey
for actually thinking the connection speed would = max download rates.

ou need to
be looking at least for any local line problems which have developed.
Temporarily disconnect everything at the linebox, plug your ADSL
router into the internal socket, with nothing else connected, and see
what you get. Depending on the results, decide what to do next, or
report results here and ask for advice. You're certainly going to be
wasting your time (and everyone else's) bleating about wanting to go
back to non-Maxed, in the face of that kind of line problem.



I'm certainly not bleating as you put it, just trying to get some advice
from a newsgroup before I go bothering plusnet, perhaps next time I should
just speak directly to them. As for wasting other peoples time, who's?
Your's? only if you choose to read my posts.

However I dont see the problem with wanting to move back, I remember the
line being alot more stable previoulsy, I'm no finding certain pages need to
be refreshed before they load correctly, this was never expierienced before


Your posting seemed to show all the hallmarks of starting from a
pre-judged wrong conclusion, and only working slowly back to your real
problem, and missing out some key bits of information. What /was/
your line speed before Max-ing, and what SNR and attenuation were you
getting at that time? That might help to reach some useful conclusion
about whether your line conditions have significantly degraded since -
unrelated to the change to MaxDSL.


pre-judged, yes correct, everything was fine before, and now I'm
experiencing slower speeds, sorry I'll try not to put 2 and 2 together again
in future.

Ben


  #6  
Old May 27th 06, 09:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Flavell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower thanbefore?!

On Sat, 27 May 2006, Benje wrote:

posted previously before I was moved to MaxDsl worrying about my current
router info (Remember this was from before the upgrade to MaxDsl)

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin 21.3 29.0 dB
Line Attenuation 52.9 27.5 dB

[...]
Data Rate 1152 288 kbps
Latency FAST FAST


Strange that the attenuation there seems quite a bit higher than you
were more recently reporting, but, if we plug the above figures into
http://212.23.23.177/calc.asp then it does suggest that you might have
expected to get around 4M on Max.

Which indeed you say you've seen at some stage...

So above is the data from my router before moving to maxdsl and the
last 9 speed tests I did at this connection speed showed a solid
970Kbps d/l +/- 50 Kbps


OK...

Well it was upgraded about 4 weeks ago, however as I work away a lot
of the time I couldnt really put an exact time on when the speeds
took a turn for the worse, it was only today when I checked my
router.


At any rate you've had the first 10 days of initial tuning, and a
couple of weeks thereafter...

I've *never* seen a "rock solid" series of speed test results.
Every one is different, and they can vary over a factor of more
than 3 from one test to another.


I've never had them differ by a factor of three before, see above
the last 9 before the upgrade were all within approx 50Kbps of each
other.


OK, fair do's - looking at my throughput tests at plusnet over the
past month or so, I see figures ranging from 1089.8 to 3979.3. Now,
admittedly the highest figures are from linux, which for me always
returns rather better results than win2k; but I've certainly got
figures around 3400 in there with win2k.

and now plusnets speed test is reporting a mere 700Kbps :-(


But first, what's your BRAS report saying?

According to the handy table in http://www.aaisp.net.uk/maxatm.html
your line speed of 1760 should qualify you for a BRAS setting of
1.5M. What does Plusnet say to you at
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate ?


Didnt know that existed,


Unless they've screwed up your control panel, I reckon that on your
connection settings panel at
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=myconnection , you should find
an inscrutable icon labelled "High-speed broadband" which takes you to
the URL which is confusingly called "stable_rate" - but in fact
displays the BRAS setting which Plusnet are notified by BT.

At first I thought it was the "max stable rate" (MSR), but that's
*not* so. Quite why Plusnet chose such a confusingly-named URL, and
made no mention of the term BRAS in their page, is left as an exercise
for the student...

that reports 200Kbps.


Oops. Only two *hundred* k ? I didn't know that was possible.

The recommendation in /that/ case is to restart your line, at
least once a day, for three days. But this isn't your only problem!

This still doesn't explain why your actual ADSL line speed is so
low, based on your figures from earlier.

doing another test just came in at around 100 Kbps


I'd say you're being throttled by that BRAS setting.

When I was upgraded it was synching at 4mbps but now it has
slowly got worse and worse!


Well, that's quite a different story, isn't it? Can you really
not tell the difference between the ADSL line speed and the
speed-tester throughput? With the SNR margin of 10.9dB that you
reported above, there is *no way* you could get a working 4M line
speed.


Obviously not, although it was showing it connecting at 4mbps,


Quite.

stupid me hey for actually thinking the connection speed would = max
download rates.


No, it definitely won't be "equal" - I've got a line speed of a bit
over 6,000, a BRAS setting of 5500, and on good days I get download
tester speeds of around 3,000, as I said.

But *do* stop obsessing about the throughput tester, until the more
fundamental problem with your line quality has been addressed.
That's my best advice.

I said befo
you need to be looking at least for any local line problems which
have developed.


- and I stand by that opinion, even though it now seems (on seeing
your BRAS rate) that you may have *two* problems.

You need to start at the right place, and work up. Your line speed,
as I say, is roughly what you would expect - just a bit low - for the
present line quality that you reported here, *but* it's much less than
your previous parameters suggested. So, I would say your own evidence
shows that something has definitely gone wrong in the weeks after you
were Max-ed, and *that* needs investigating: they will ask you to
troubleshoot that anyway before accepting that the line is failing.
If you can eliminate problems (faulty local wiring, faulty filters,
faulty ADSL router etc.) at your end then maybe there's a line
problem. Read up on other postings where folks have done
troubleshooting in their local wiring, filters, and other kit.

Until that's been looked into, it's not obvious what to do about your
BRAS setting; but if you've no objection, then restarting the line at
least once a day for a few days might help. It's not going to solve
the problem, but it might get you better throughput while you're
working on the primary problem. Read the advice already posted often
enough before by others.

The technology is the same as is described at
http://www.aaisp.net.uk/maxmagic.html , if you want some technical
background.

However I dont see the problem with wanting to move back,


If you're developing a faulty line, or whatever reason there is that
you've lost such a massive amount of SNR margin, then it needs to be
fixed!

I remember the line being alot more stable previoulsy,


Very likely; but hankering after changing back to a fixed rate isn't
going to repair whatever it is that's going defective. If you insist
on doing so, as I say, you'd only be wasting your own time, as well as
anyone else's who'd be involved, and you would be no nearer to solving
your fault. If you've got a fault, report the *fault*, with proper
details: don't try to pre-judge the *solution*.

Indeed you've said yourself that you -have- seen 4Mbit/s.

Get on with troubleshooting what you've got, is my advice. You could
try the Plusnet online "Broadband Fault Checker", if you want to get
started with reporting a fault. It'll start you off with much the
same local troubleshooting that I recommended, I think you're going to
find.
  #7  
Old May 27th 06, 10:42 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PhilT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!


Brian Orpin wrote:
stable_rate ?

What is a BRAS report? I don't understand that bit.


as you were. You're on 512k fixed speed so forget about it.

Did the surge protector increase your SNR margin ?

Phil

  #8  
Old May 27th 06, 10:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Flavell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower thanbefore?!

On Sat, 27 May 2006, Brian Orpin wrote:

According to the handy table in http://www.aaisp.net.uk/maxatm.html
your line speed of 1760 should qualify you for a BRAS setting of
1.5M. What does Plusnet say to you at
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate ?


What is a BRAS report? I don't understand that bit.


If you won't read the cited URLs, then that's rather to be expected.

The following is my Modem Status - Plusnet say I am at 8000kbps on
that page above!!!


AIUI they initially set a dummy value representing the maximum speed
for your account type, until you actually get Max-ed.

Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 288
Ds Rate (Kbps) 576


You haven't yet been max-ed, right?

  #9  
Old May 28th 06, 11:50 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Benje
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower than before?!


"Alan J. Flavell" wrote in message
. gla.ac.uk...

"

Alan,

Very helpful indeed, although I have just been informed that caller display
has also stopped working in the past few weeks (I wish people would tell me
these things!!) So I now believe it's very possible there is a line problem,
or something else to do with BT.

However looking at the plusnet community forums, there appears a few people
are experiencing extremely slow speeds, so it wouldn't surprise me if
plusnet are rolling out yet another acceptable usage scheme, they really are
useless now!

Cheers

Ben


  #10  
Old May 28th 06, 02:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alan J. Flavell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default MaxDsl - Is it possible to make your connection slower thanbefore?!

On Sun, 28 May 2006, Benje wrote:

Very helpful indeed, although I have just been informed that caller
display has also stopped working in the past few weeks (I wish
people would tell me these things!!)


If you have a problem with the /phone/ service, then you need to
report that to the service provider to whom you pay your phone bill:
if that is BT, then that may be the best place to attack your line
problem.

But I repeat, you should be playing your part by eliminating possible
faults in your local wiring, sockets, ADSL filters etc. As I said
before, you should go to your master linebox, and test via the
internal socket. BT Phones will ask you to do that anyway when you
try to report a phone fault. Preferably, try more than one phone
that's believed to be working, in case one of the phones just died.

If debugging your phone service finds and fixes a line fault, then it
could very well have the side effect of fixing your ADSL line problem.
You'd then need to get your BRAS setting up to something sensible
(would take several days, and you might need to restart your router
once a day to activate the BRAS updating[1]), before even thinking
whether there's any additional ADSL problems to worry about.

In summary, you need to develop a more systematic approach to fault
resolution, rather than thrashing around and clutching at the first
thing you can think of, or that other people (in very different
situations) happen to be discussing. That's the best advice I can
give you - and it's not intended to be rude, no matter what you might
think.

So I now believe it's very possible there is a line problem,
or something else to do with BT.


Make no mistake about it, you can NOT complain about your ADSL
problems directly to BT. ADSL is dealt with by a different lot (BT
Wholesale), and you can only approach them via your service provider,
i.e Plusnet. Make sure you report the right problem to the right
place.

However looking at the plusnet community forums, there appears a few
people are experiencing extremely slow speeds, so it wouldn't
surprise me if plusnet are rolling out yet another acceptable usage
scheme, they really are useless now!


You're back to mis-identifying the problem again. Assuming that you
reported your BRAS setting correctly, then that is quite enough to
account for your poor throughput, *within* the BT system, and not
something which Plusnet are doing. You should be trying the BT speed
tester in order to rule Plusnet out of the problem - it's a bit
awkward to use, but it's the only way if you want to be sure. See
plusnet's tutorial at http://usertools.plus.net/tutorials/id/27
if you want to try that.

But if you genuinely can describe a telephone service line fault, then
your best approach may be to report that as your first priority.

good luck

[1] Apparently, if your ADSL router syncs at an abnormally low speed
then BT will quickly adjust the BRAS rate down to fit it. Presumably
yours must have done this at some stage. But when it syncs at a higher
speed, they only slowly adjust the BRAS rate up towards the new speed.
See e.g http://www.aaisp.net.uk/maxmagic.html again for some details.
Check https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate to see how
yours is developing.
 




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