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Hosting and Google



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 10th 06, 12:08 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google

Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites, an old
version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my current ISP. I
also have my own domain name. Although I have submitted my present web-site
to Google, etc., my old site is better represented on search engines, and I
want to redirect searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home page,
and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone searching clicked on
the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to the detail html pages, of
which there are too many to amend individually.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new site, the
URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my domain address.
This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except my old
ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was quite helpful, and
even said it would be useful to him too, but he couldn't get his admin
people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the host
address rather than the ISP address?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?

Thanks

Allan


  #2  
Old August 10th 06, 12:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google

Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites, an
old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my current
ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have submitted my
present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is better represented
on search engines, and I want to redirect searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone searching
clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to the detail
html pages, of which there are too many to amend individually.


How many is too many?

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.


A comprehension question: What do you mean by "ISP address" and "domain
address"?

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was quite
helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he couldn't
get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?


Would you mind giving examples?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?


I can only think of .htaccess (centrally, done once), the PHP header()
function, and a meta refresh tag. The last two imply a lot of file
editing though if your old ISP neither allows the use of a self-created
..htaccess, nor has some built-in functions like an automatic redirect.

Regards,
Gunde


  #3  
Old August 10th 06, 01:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google

Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites, an
old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my current
ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have submitted my
present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is better represented
on search engines, and I want to redirect searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone searching
clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to the detail
html pages, of which there are too many to amend individually.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was quite
helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he couldn't
get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?

Thanks


Not quite sure whether I've understood you correctly- but as I read this
your domain name (let's call it allansdomain.com) points to your old hosting
and you have made a new (copy) version on your new hosting at your new ISP.
So of course all google's searches are pointing to allansdomain.com on your
old ISP. It hardly seems worth trying to futz Google into redirecting them
all to your new host. The simple and obvious thing is to simply move
allansdomain.com to point to the new host. Why not do that? It's only a
matter of changing the nameservers and waiting a day or two.

Google may get upset if you try to outthink them and may even ban you. Also,
pretty soon Googlebot will find the "new" site, index it, and then you'll be
competing with yourself for Google position.

Really, if your site matters enough to either you or anyone else that you
care about Google rankings, you should do the proper thing and move the
domain.

If I've misunderstood, and the old site wasn't on your domain name and the
new one is, or if neither one is, I'd give it up as a bad job and just
delete the old site, leaving just a "my site has moved, redirecting you
shortly" thingy, and wait for Google to get excited about the new one. This
is why any site you care about even a little bit should have its own proper
domain from the word go

Make sure you've got some inbound links to the new site so Google and the
other bots can find it quickly.

Ian


  #4  
Old August 10th 06, 05:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google


"Gundemarie Scholz" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites, an
old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my current
ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have submitted my
present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is better represented
on search engines, and I want to redirect searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone searching
clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to the detail
html pages, of which there are too many to amend individually.


How many is too many?


Hmm.. Over 6000.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.


A comprehension question: What do you mean by "ISP address" and "domain
address"?


v.

Google searches return the former format instead of the latter.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was quite
helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he couldn't
get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?


Would you mind giving examples?


I was hoping that Google would return
, instead of



2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?


I can only think of .htaccess (centrally, done once), the PHP header()
function, and a meta refresh tag. The last two imply a lot of file
editing though if your old ISP neither allows the use of a self-created
.htaccess, nor has some built-in functions like an automatic redirect.

Regards,
Gunde



Sorry, I'd had a heavy day and it was getting late.

Allan

  #5  
Old August 10th 06, 06:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google


"Jaxtraw" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites, an
old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my current
ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have submitted my
present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is better represented
on search engines, and I want to redirect searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone searching
clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to the detail
html pages, of which there are too many to amend individually.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was quite
helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he couldn't
get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?

Thanks


Not quite sure whether I've understood you correctly- but as I read this
your domain name (let's call it allansdomain.com) points to your old
hosting
and you have made a new (copy) version on your new hosting at your new
ISP.
So of course all google's searches are pointing to allansdomain.com on
your
old ISP. It hardly seems worth trying to futz Google into redirecting them
all to your new host. The simple and obvious thing is to simply move
allansdomain.com to point to the new host. Why not do that? It's only a
matter of changing the nameservers and waiting a day or two.


Sorry I was fuzzy - long day.

It's the other way about. My domain name points to my new ISP, and has done
for a couple of years. The first problem is this. I've just googled for a
name that appears on my website. Nine pages were returned, my old site
being the second entry, and my new site first shows on page nine, by which
time most will have given up and gone to bed. So, if I scrap my old site,
I'm cutting myself off from potential new visitors.


snip


If I've misunderstood, and the old site wasn't on your domain name and the
new one is, or if neither one is, I'd give it up as a bad job and just
delete the old site, leaving just a "my site has moved, redirecting you
shortly" thingy, and wait for Google to get excited about the new one.
This
is why any site you care about even a little bit should have its own
proper
domain from the word go


Yes, that's what I'd intended to do, but it's taken two years for Google to
find. Actually, that's not strictly true. My new website has a link to a
photo gallery which is on a different - cgi - server on the same ISP and
google has numerous link to those pages but not to the html files on the web
server!


Make sure you've got some inbound links to the new site so Google and the
other bots can find it quickly.


May be links to my new site from the old, apart from the few redirect
headers I've done? I could stuff a few of those in, referring to different
pages, perhaps.

Ian



Thanks for your help.

Allan

  #6  
Old August 10th 06, 09:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google

Allan wrote:
"Jaxtraw" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites,
an old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my
current ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have
submitted my present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is
better represented on search engines, and I want to redirect
searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone
searching clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to
the detail html pages, of which there are too many to amend
individually.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was
quite helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he
couldn't get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?

Thanks


Not quite sure whether I've understood you correctly- but as I read
this your domain name (let's call it allansdomain.com) points to
your old hosting
and you have made a new (copy) version on your new hosting at your
new ISP.
So of course all google's searches are pointing to allansdomain.com
on your
old ISP. It hardly seems worth trying to futz Google into
redirecting them all to your new host. The simple and obvious thing
is to simply move allansdomain.com to point to the new host. Why not
do that? It's only a matter of changing the nameservers and waiting
a day or two.


Sorry I was fuzzy - long day.

It's the other way about. My domain name points to my new ISP, and
has done for a couple of years. The first problem is this. I've
just googled for a name that appears on my website. Nine pages were
returned, my old site being the second entry, and my new site first
shows on page nine, by which time most will have given up and gone to
bed. So, if I scrap my old site, I'm cutting myself off from
potential new visitors.


snip


If I've misunderstood, and the old site wasn't on your domain name
and the new one is, or if neither one is, I'd give it up as a bad
job and just delete the old site, leaving just a "my site has moved,
redirecting you shortly" thingy, and wait for Google to get excited
about the new one. This
is why any site you care about even a little bit should have its own
proper
domain from the word go


Yes, that's what I'd intended to do, but it's taken two years for
Google to find. Actually, that's not strictly true. My new website
has a link to a photo gallery which is on a different - cgi - server
on the same ISP and google has numerous link to those pages but not
to the html files on the web server!


Make sure you've got some inbound links to the new site so Google
and the other bots can find it quickly.


May be links to my new site from the old, apart from the few redirect
headers I've done? I could stuff a few of those in, referring to
different pages, perhaps.

Ian



Thanks for your help.

Allan


I'm not any kind of expert on this, but there are people on
alt.internet.search-engines who are

It sounds to me like Google thinks your old site is more relevant than your
new one. Do the pageranks differ? It may be that many people have outbound
links to your old site- see where the traffic's coming from and if so ask
them to point to your new one might be one thing.

Seems to me though that while the old site stays up, it'll just be a thorn
in your flesh. I'd ditch it, take the short-term traffic hit (will it really
be that major? If most of your traffic's going to the old site from
mysterious sources, that's a problem *anyway*) and try to get the new one
promoted with some links from other sites.

As I said though, you may get some much more useful advice on a.i.s-e


Ian

--
www.jaxtrawstudios.com
science fiction comics with shagging in


  #7  
Old August 10th 06, 11:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google


"Jaxtraw" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
"Jaxtraw" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites,
an old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my
current ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have
submitted my present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is
better represented on search engines, and I want to redirect
searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone
searching clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to
the detail html pages, of which there are too many to amend
individually.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was
quite helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he
couldn't get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?

Thanks


Not quite sure whether I've understood you correctly- but as I read
this your domain name (let's call it allansdomain.com) points to
your old hosting
and you have made a new (copy) version on your new hosting at your
new ISP.
So of course all google's searches are pointing to allansdomain.com
on your
old ISP. It hardly seems worth trying to futz Google into
redirecting them all to your new host. The simple and obvious thing
is to simply move allansdomain.com to point to the new host. Why not
do that? It's only a matter of changing the nameservers and waiting
a day or two.


Sorry I was fuzzy - long day.

It's the other way about. My domain name points to my new ISP, and
has done for a couple of years. The first problem is this. I've
just googled for a name that appears on my website. Nine pages were
returned, my old site being the second entry, and my new site first
shows on page nine, by which time most will have given up and gone to
bed. So, if I scrap my old site, I'm cutting myself off from
potential new visitors.


snip


If I've misunderstood, and the old site wasn't on your domain name
and the new one is, or if neither one is, I'd give it up as a bad
job and just delete the old site, leaving just a "my site has moved,
redirecting you shortly" thingy, and wait for Google to get excited
about the new one. This
is why any site you care about even a little bit should have its own
proper
domain from the word go


Yes, that's what I'd intended to do, but it's taken two years for
Google to find. Actually, that's not strictly true. My new website
has a link to a photo gallery which is on a different - cgi - server
on the same ISP and google has numerous link to those pages but not
to the html files on the web server!


Make sure you've got some inbound links to the new site so Google
and the other bots can find it quickly.


May be links to my new site from the old, apart from the few redirect
headers I've done? I could stuff a few of those in, referring to
different pages, perhaps.

Ian



Thanks for your help.

Allan


I'm not any kind of expert on this, but there are people on
alt.internet.search-engines who are

It sounds to me like Google thinks your old site is more relevant than
your
new one. Do the pageranks differ? It may be that many people have outbound
links to your old site- see where the traffic's coming from and if so ask
them to point to your new one might be one thing.

Seems to me though that while the old site stays up, it'll just be a thorn
in your flesh. I'd ditch it, take the short-term traffic hit (will it
really
be that major? If most of your traffic's going to the old site from
mysterious sources, that's a problem *anyway*) and try to get the new one
promoted with some links from other sites.

As I said though, you may get some much more useful advice on a.i.s-e


Ian

Many thanks, Ian. I think I've more or less got to that point, ditching the
old one.

Allan

  #8  
Old August 12th 06, 12:02 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google


"Jaxtraw" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
"Jaxtraw" wrote in message
...
Allan wrote:
Possibly a bit OT, so apologies in advance. I have two web-sites,
an old version on my previous ISP, and the up-to-date one on my
current ISP. I also have my own domain name. Although I have
submitted my present web-site to Google, etc., my old site is
better represented on search engines, and I want to redirect
searches to my new site.

Easy, I thought, just put a redirect into the header on the old home
page, and voila! Of course, it worked, but only if someone
searching clicked on the homepage. Sadly, all google finds are to
the detail html pages, of which there are too many to amend
individually.

Also, if I do a google search for a reference to a page on my new
site, the URL returned always is to my ISP address rather than to my
domain address. This detracts from the benefit of having hosting.

I found .htaccess redirecting could work at directory level, except
my old ISP doesn't allow use of .htaccess. The support guy was
quite helpful, and even said it would be useful to him too, but he
couldn't get his admin people to agree.

So, two queries..

1. Is it possible to set up hosting so that searches point to the
host address rather than the ISP address?

2. Is there another way to redirect that doesn't need hundreds of
individual file headers editing and re-uploading?

Thanks


Not quite sure whether I've understood you correctly- but as I read
this your domain name (let's call it allansdomain.com) points to
your old hosting
and you have made a new (copy) version on your new hosting at your
new ISP.
So of course all google's searches are pointing to allansdomain.com
on your
old ISP. It hardly seems worth trying to futz Google into
redirecting them all to your new host. The simple and obvious thing
is to simply move allansdomain.com to point to the new host. Why not
do that? It's only a matter of changing the nameservers and waiting
a day or two.


Sorry I was fuzzy - long day.

It's the other way about. My domain name points to my new ISP, and
has done for a couple of years. The first problem is this. I've
just googled for a name that appears on my website. Nine pages were
returned, my old site being the second entry, and my new site first
shows on page nine, by which time most will have given up and gone to
bed. So, if I scrap my old site, I'm cutting myself off from
potential new visitors.


snip


If I've misunderstood, and the old site wasn't on your domain name
and the new one is, or if neither one is, I'd give it up as a bad
job and just delete the old site, leaving just a "my site has moved,
redirecting you shortly" thingy, and wait for Google to get excited
about the new one. This
is why any site you care about even a little bit should have its own
proper
domain from the word go


Yes, that's what I'd intended to do, but it's taken two years for
Google to find. Actually, that's not strictly true. My new website
has a link to a photo gallery which is on a different - cgi - server
on the same ISP and google has numerous link to those pages but not
to the html files on the web server!


Make sure you've got some inbound links to the new site so Google
and the other bots can find it quickly.


May be links to my new site from the old, apart from the few redirect
headers I've done? I could stuff a few of those in, referring to
different pages, perhaps.

Ian



Thanks for your help.

Allan


I'm not any kind of expert on this, but there are people on
alt.internet.search-engines who are

It sounds to me like Google thinks your old site is more relevant than
your
new one. Do the pageranks differ? It may be that many people have outbound
links to your old site- see where the traffic's coming from and if so ask
them to point to your new one might be one thing.

Seems to me though that while the old site stays up, it'll just be a thorn
in your flesh. I'd ditch it, take the short-term traffic hit (will it
really
be that major? If most of your traffic's going to the old site from
mysterious sources, that's a problem *anyway*) and try to get the new one
promoted with some links from other sites.

As I said though, you may get some much more useful advice on a.i.s-e


Ian


Just a minor update....

I went on to a.i.s-e and came across a link to obtain stats on links using
different search engines. It was very reassuring that yahoo etc do know of
my new domain address, even if google still turns up its nose. Another
point, too, was that google, when it did deign to produce my link, did so to
my ISP address instead of my domain address, whereas the other engines
perform as I expected. So, it seems to prove that what I've done is OK,
except in google's eyes. Pity it's the most popular on (I think). I might
try posting on a.i.s-e, to see what they think.

Allan

  #9  
Old August 12th 06, 10:00 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google

"Allan" wrote:

Another point, too, was that google, when it did deign to produce my link, did
so to my ISP address instead of my domain address, whereas the other
engines perform as I expected.


There was a comment elsewhere (concerning someone changing hosting firm
but keeping the same domain name) that Google uses the IP address for its
searches. That may explain why it is taking your ISP address. Better get
hosting separately and then you will finally get Google to show the ideal
link addresses, because changing ISP will lead to the same mess in the
future (mess as in uncertainty over ranking - fortunate I don't use the
Google ranking as the most important criteria -:


Anyway, while posting, a check of the Charter might be worthwhile...

This group is a forum for discussion of broadband services, technology and
equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on
ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on- topic.

Full text at http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.telecom.broadband.html

All too often it is appearing as first choice for miscellaneous questions.
Try also http://groups.google.com/ with the subject line.
  #10  
Old August 12th 06, 10:38 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hosting and Google


"NoNeedToKnow" wrote in message
...
"Allan" wrote:

Another point, too, was that google, when it did deign to produce my link,
did
so to my ISP address instead of my domain address, whereas the other
engines perform as I expected.


There was a comment elsewhere (concerning someone changing hosting firm
but keeping the same domain name) that Google uses the IP address for its
searches. That may explain why it is taking your ISP address. Better get
hosting separately and then you will finally get Google to show the ideal
link addresses, because changing ISP will lead to the same mess in the
future (mess as in uncertainty over ranking - fortunate I don't use the
Google ranking as the most important criteria -:


Thanks for that pointer.

Anyway, while posting, a check of the Charter might be worthwhile...

This group is a forum for discussion of broadband services, technology and
equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on
ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on- topic.

Full text at http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.telecom.broadband.html

All too often it is appearing as first choice for miscellaneous questions.
Try also http://groups.google.com/ with the subject line.


I had seen a recent thread here about hosting which prompted my question.
While I did apologise in my first posting, I do realise now there is a more
appropriate place. Sorry again.

Allan

 




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