A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 31st 06, 11:12 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

Tomorrow, I am going to try to help out a neighbour and attempt to trace
a wiring fault. I could do with any suitable advice before starting.

The situation is this:-

He has just been enabled for broadband but could not connect and asked
me for help (not that I know very much).

He has two telephone extensions leading from the master socket and his
computer is using one of them. He is using a router but the DSL light
was not showing.

When the router is attached to the test socket of the master socket, the
DSL light comes on. When the router is plugged into the front plate
socket of the master socket, the DSL light stays off. I therefore
presume that there is a fault in his extension wiring.

What I propose to do tomorrow (please correct any mistaken assumptions) is:-

Expose the connections at all of the sockets, run a length of spare wire
(bell wire) between them and test each telephone wire for continuity
(using the bell wire for the return path). This, I hope, will show where
the fault is and enable us to correct it or re-wire as necessary.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome, please.

--
Howard Neil
  #2  
Old August 31st 06, 12:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

Howard Neil wrote:
Tomorrow, I am going to try to help out a neighbour and attempt to
trace a wiring fault. I could do with any suitable advice before
starting.

The situation is this:-

He has just been enabled for broadband but could not connect and
asked
me for help (not that I know very much).

He has two telephone extensions leading from the master socket and
his
computer is using one of them. He is using a router but the DSL
light
was not showing.

When the router is attached to the test socket of the master socket,
the DSL light comes on. When the router is plugged into the front
plate socket of the master socket, the DSL light stays off. I
therefore
presume that there is a fault in his extension wiring.

What I propose to do tomorrow (please correct any mistaken
assumptions) is:-
Expose the connections at all of the sockets, run a length of spare
wire (bell wire) between them and test each telephone wire for
continuity (using the bell wire for the return path). This, I hope,
will show where the fault is and enable us to correct it or re-wire
as necessary.
Any comments/suggestions are welcome, please.


Shouldn't be neccesary to do continuity test. It's simple, does a
telephone work at each socket? If yes you have got continuity.

Things to look for..

What type of cable have the extensions been run with? Is it twisted
pair, burglar alarm cable(no twists, no pairs & the conductor is
stranded) or the flat extensions which everybody & their dog appear to
be selling. If it is twisted pair go to the next pointer, if not give
up now & start thinking laterally...

If it's twisted pair ensure that it's not been connected split pair,
in other words the blue white with white blue, orange white with white
orange, if you get my drift, & the connections you should use are 2&5
(one pair) & (if you are going the whole hog & doing it properly)
another wire connected to 3. There maybe other connections available
but they aren't used in this scenario. Older cables may have colored
markers & a white to make a pair, but you can find out the pairing if
you look at the twists. Newer installs may have used colored leadin
in this case it's white & orange, black & green.

Make sure that all equipment is filtered (yep even the Sky digi box
which a surprising number of end users forget) this includes any extra
tele bells or even burglar alarms (which is another one which
end-users appear to forget).

If you've done all the above & it still is not working then try
removing the bell wire, pin 3, see if that makes a difference.

If you're still got problems make sure that all connections are good &
tight (have known more than a few cases where the problems have been
caused by faulty/loose terminations on the extension wiring).

After that mug a passing DSL engineer & feed him tea & biscuits until
they've fixed it, but seriously though, it is a logical progression
which you just have to work thru. there may be problems with the
extension wiring which have been there ever since day one & you just
have to work your way thru checking quality of cables, connections etc
& just because you only get 2 filters in the box doesn't mean that you
only filter 2 things, you have to filter all equipment (yes I have
been called out more than once to people who thought like that as
well).

HTH

B-)


  #3  
Old August 31st 06, 01:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

kráftéé wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:
Tomorrow, I am going to try to help out a neighbour and attempt to
trace a wiring fault. I could do with any suitable advice before
starting.

The situation is this:-

He has just been enabled for broadband but could not connect and
asked
me for help (not that I know very much).

He has two telephone extensions leading from the master socket and
his
computer is using one of them. He is using a router but the DSL
light
was not showing.

When the router is attached to the test socket of the master socket,
the DSL light comes on. When the router is plugged into the front
plate socket of the master socket, the DSL light stays off. I
therefore
presume that there is a fault in his extension wiring.

What I propose to do tomorrow (please correct any mistaken
assumptions) is:-
Expose the connections at all of the sockets, run a length of spare
wire (bell wire) between them and test each telephone wire for
continuity (using the bell wire for the return path). This, I hope,
will show where the fault is and enable us to correct it or re-wire
as necessary.
Any comments/suggestions are welcome, please.


Shouldn't be neccesary to do continuity test. It's simple, does a
telephone work at each socket? If yes you have got continuity.

Things to look for..

What type of cable have the extensions been run with? Is it twisted
pair, burglar alarm cable(no twists, no pairs & the conductor is
stranded) or the flat extensions which everybody & their dog appear to
be selling. If it is twisted pair go to the next pointer, if not give
up now & start thinking laterally...

If it's twisted pair ensure that it's not been connected split pair,
in other words the blue white with white blue, orange white with white
orange, if you get my drift, & the connections you should use are 2&5
(one pair) & (if you are going the whole hog & doing it properly)
another wire connected to 3. There maybe other connections available
but they aren't used in this scenario. Older cables may have colored
markers & a white to make a pair, but you can find out the pairing if
you look at the twists. Newer installs may have used colored leadin
in this case it's white & orange, black & green.

Make sure that all equipment is filtered (yep even the Sky digi box
which a surprising number of end users forget) this includes any extra
tele bells or even burglar alarms (which is another one which
end-users appear to forget).

If you've done all the above & it still is not working then try
removing the bell wire, pin 3, see if that makes a difference.

If you're still got problems make sure that all connections are good &
tight (have known more than a few cases where the problems have been
caused by faulty/loose terminations on the extension wiring).

After that mug a passing DSL engineer & feed him tea & biscuits until
they've fixed it, but seriously though, it is a logical progression
which you just have to work thru. there may be problems with the
extension wiring which have been there ever since day one & you just
have to work your way thru checking quality of cables, connections etc
& just because you only get 2 filters in the box doesn't mean that you
only filter 2 things, you have to filter all equipment (yes I have
been called out more than once to people who thought like that as
well).


Thank you very much for the reply. I don't yet know what type of cable
has been used. I do know that the telephones work on all extensions but
they have had intermittent problems with them over the years (problems
that then clear up on their own or are blamed on equipment such as the
answer phone) so it may well be an old fault.

I have printed out your suggestions to take with me (in case I forget
anything).

I am very much obliged.

--
Howard Neil
  #4  
Old August 31st 06, 02:55 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

Howard Neil wrote:

I have printed out your suggestions to take with me (in case I
forget
anything).

I am very much obliged.


Shucks, ain't no problem, I've given you a bit of grounding that's
all, just think it thru logically & you shouldn't have any problems
but hearing about the intermittent problems which they have suffered
from in the past does make me glad it's you & not me who's trying to
help..

Hope it's a success

B-)


  #5  
Old August 31st 06, 03:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

kráftéé wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

I have printed out your suggestions to take with me (in case I
forget
anything).

I am very much obliged.


Shucks, ain't no problem, I've given you a bit of grounding that's
all, just think it thru logically & you shouldn't have any problems
but hearing about the intermittent problems which they have suffered
from in the past does make me glad it's you & not me who's trying to
help..

Hope it's a success


Thanks. You never know about getting the job. You don't work West Wales,
do you by any chance? ;-)

--
Howard Neil
  #6  
Old August 31st 06, 04:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.


"Howard Neil" wrote in message
...
kráftéé wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

I have printed out your suggestions to take with me (in case I forget
anything).

I am very much obliged.



Also print this and take it with you.
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html

Fred



  #7  
Old August 31st 06, 04:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

The Simpsons wrote:
"Howard Neil" wrote in message
...
kráftéé wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

I have printed out your suggestions to take with me (in case I forget
anything).

I am very much obliged.



Also print this and take it with you.
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html


Thank you very much. I have printed it and it is very likely to be of value.

--
Howard Neil
  #8  
Old August 31st 06, 11:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

Howard Neil wrote:
kráftéé wrote:

Hope it's a success


Thanks. You never know about getting the job. You don't work West
Wales, do you by any chance? ;-)


I don't think he does.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]


  #9  
Old September 1st 06, 02:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.


"Howard Neil" wrote in message
...
Tomorrow, I am going to try to help out a neighbour and attempt to trace a
wiring fault. I could do with any suitable advice before starting.

The situation is this:-

He has just been enabled for broadband but could not connect and asked me
for help (not that I know very much).

He has two telephone extensions leading from the master socket and his
computer is using one of them. He is using a router but the DSL light was
not showing.

When the router is attached to the test socket of the master socket, the
DSL light comes on. When the router is plugged into the front plate socket
of the master socket, the DSL light stays off. I therefore presume that
there is a fault in his extension wiring.

What I propose to do tomorrow (please correct any mistaken assumptions)
is:-

Expose the connections at all of the sockets, run a length of spare wire
(bell wire) between them and test each telephone wire for continuity
(using the bell wire for the return path). This, I hope, will show where
the fault is and enable us to correct it or re-wire as necessary.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome, please.

--
Howard Neil


I would suggest you buy a cheap phone extension lead ,plug a filter into
the master socket and extend from the ADSL socket, on the filter direct to
the modem or whatever, you may need some Rj 11 sockets and plugs, if it
doesn't work then it may be down to B.T
I get the best results from this, but sometimes not good enough as I am some
distance from the exchange


  #10  
Old September 1st 06, 09:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ping kráftéé ? Advice needed to trace wiring fault.

Leveled wrote:

I would suggest you buy a cheap phone extension lead ,plug a filter
into the master socket and extend from the ADSL socket, on the
filter
direct to the modem or whatever, you may need some Rj 11 sockets and
plugs, if it doesn't work then it may be down to B.T
I get the best results from this, but sometimes not good enough as I
am some distance from the exchange


Problem with cheap phone extensions is 2 fold, if not more. The
quality standards to which they are made are questionable in many
cases. The actual construct with it being flat ( no effective
shielding from any RF noise sources in your property, that's one of
the reasons the pairs are twisted together in reasonable quality
telephone wiring) & the fact that the conductors are stranded & not
solid & so in themselves can cause noise problems.

One case higlights this very problem, but there have been plenty more,
visited an enduser who was complaining about intermitent connections,
over the course of 5 visits everything & it's dog had been changed
until eventually they were getting 18db loop & a very resonable SNR
figure as well, but they still kept raising faults.

This was in the days when we had a little leeway in looking at
customers wiring so on the 6th visit the signal was checked before &
after his cheapo extension, the 18dB attenuation had become 37dB by
the time it had past thru his bodge up & the SNR had gone thru the
floor, At this stage he was advised that any more visits would be
fully chargable & you know what............he hasn't raised a single
fault in the last 5 years, after he had been bothered enough to
actually use the correct quality equipment & not a couple of £1 shop
special telephone extensions as he had been advised to do on a couple
of previous occaisions.

Buying cheap normally equates with being more expensive in the long
run....


 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IP trace? Flexi uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 5 January 17th 15 09:56 AM
Simple mail "server" program needed - advice needed please Andrew Sayers uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 12 August 24th 06 05:03 PM
can internal wiring fault cause ADSL failure? davek uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 5 November 25th 05 08:20 PM
serious advice needed! brushes uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 3 October 10th 04 01:24 PM
advice needed marky uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 6 January 20th 04 06:45 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright ©2004-2019 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.