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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

Stay away from jajah



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 06, 01:59 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Stay away from jajah

After evaluating the jajah service for several weeks I came to the
conclusion that we are dealing here with a scamming company that is
relying on naive or ignorant users.

The company will provide you with a few free phone calls - and then
pull the sting opreation: without any notice or alert it will charge a
free call as non-free, deplete your account to a level where you can no
longer make free calls (even to active members), forcing you to pay
ransom to unlock your account.

Thereafter the trick will continue... You make a call for 30 minutes,
they charge you for 45 minutes. They will keep overcharging your
account until... you notice it of course.

If you attempt to resolve this with their "JAJAH support", they will
keep stonewalling you evasive answers and when that doesn't help, they
will intimidate you with rude replies. Read for yourself in their
"support" forums:

http://forum.jajah.com/viewforum.php?f=2

You can try that service and see for yourself - it is free - until...
(you get the picture)

Just a friendly warning to all the unsuspecting folks out there.

Naysolal

  #2  
Old December 4th 06, 11:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
News Reader
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default Stay away from jajah


wrote in message
ups.com...
After evaluating the jajah service for several weeks I came to the
conclusion that we are dealing here with a scamming company that is
relying on naive or ignorant users.

The company will provide you with a few free phone calls - and then
pull the sting opreation: without any notice or alert it will charge a
free call as non-free, deplete your account to a level where you can no
longer make free calls (even to active members), forcing you to pay
ransom to unlock your account.

Thereafter the trick will continue... You make a call for 30 minutes,
they charge you for 45 minutes. They will keep overcharging your
account until... you notice it of course.

If you attempt to resolve this with their "JAJAH support", they will
keep stonewalling you evasive answers and when that doesn't help, they
will intimidate you with rude replies. Read for yourself in their
"support" forums:

http://forum.jajah.com/viewforum.php?f=2

You can try that service and see for yourself - it is free - until...
(you get the picture)

Just a friendly warning to all the unsuspecting folks out there.

Naysolal



As I understand it their are strict rules to ensure qualification of "free"
calls.

One slip up can mean you fall outside of the freecalls categorisation and
have to pay and / or subsequently re-enable your account for free calls (a
free process itself).

Further, given the nature of the service, I think the idea is pretty
straightforward... knowing its nature, always verify (as their system
facilitates - easily!), that the given call is indeed going to be recorded
as "free" by their systems.

(Note: their are fixed limits - you need to review their terms in detail -
their is at least one very useful forum post all about the free calls - e.g.
maximum 1000 minutes per month I think it is, etc.).

This is how a lot of these "free" call providers operate - e.g. Gizmo
project, etc. (i.e. restrictive or awkward / difficult terms - so many /
most will slip up at one point or another or just pay because it is easier /
might seem a bit easier / etc.).


Best wishes,




News Reader



  #3  
Old December 4th 06, 11:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Stay away from jajah

Dear Naysolal,

I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
the call. You can find the details here
http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/

The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
up before you make the call next to the call button.

We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
I will get back to you by email to handle this.

Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.

Best, Frederik

  #4  
Old December 5th 06, 02:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Stay away from jajah

This is the template answer I would except from any comptent public
relations person representing a company. No surprises here. Very
polite, formal, sometimes even pleasantly sounding - but denying all
allegations (of course) and never taking responsibility of any sort.

I wrote the original post after a friend of mine encountered a problem
with your service. He followed exactly what you suggest here - to no
avail. Instead of providing him with reasonable explanation of what
happened, you stonewalled him with your sugar-coated verbiage tactics.
Using your template answers, of course ("I'm sorry", "I apologize",
etc.) - but never offering any *real* help.

If your "sorrow" is sincere, please check your support forum again and
try to find recent postings of customers who complained about unjust
charges by your system but remained disappointed by your response.
Contact them via email and resolve the problems. Once you do that, you
can trust that I will know about that and be the first to post a follow
up to this posting which clears your reputation.

The onus of proof is on you. It is you who wants our money (fortunately
there is enough competition).

And please don't sell us the stories of having "a bug free system" -
this makes you look bad, very bad, as it provides the less innocent
explanation for your overcharges (intentional scamming).

Naysolal

P.S. For the poster mentioning the "strict rules" for free minutes:
Mail-in rebates in the USA also have strict rules - strict but not
impossible, strict but well documented and communicated to the
customer. It seems that Jajah conveniently omitted some of their rules
from the already long and very difficult to satisfy list.



wrote:
Dear Naysolal,

I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
the call. You can find the details here
http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/

The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
up before you make the call next to the call button.

We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
I will get back to you by email to handle this.

Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.

Best, Frederik


  #5  
Old December 6th 06, 01:01 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
News Reader
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default Stay away from jajah


wrote in message
oups.com...
This is the template answer I would except from any comptent public
relations person representing a company. No surprises here. Very
polite, formal, sometimes even pleasantly sounding - but denying all
allegations (of course) and never taking responsibility of any sort.

I wrote the original post after a friend of mine encountered a problem
with your service. He followed exactly what you suggest here - to no
avail. Instead of providing him with reasonable explanation of what
happened, you stonewalled him with your sugar-coated verbiage tactics.
Using your template answers, of course ("I'm sorry", "I apologize",
etc.) - but never offering any *real* help.

If your "sorrow" is sincere, please check your support forum again and
try to find recent postings of customers who complained about unjust
charges by your system but remained disappointed by your response.
Contact them via email and resolve the problems. Once you do that, you
can trust that I will know about that and be the first to post a follow
up to this posting which clears your reputation.

The onus of proof is on you. It is you who wants our money (fortunately
there is enough competition).

And please don't sell us the stories of having "a bug free system" -
this makes you look bad, very bad, as it provides the less innocent
explanation for your overcharges (intentional scamming).

Naysolal

P.S. For the poster mentioning the "strict rules" for free minutes:
Mail-in rebates in the USA also have strict rules - strict but not
impossible, strict but well documented and communicated to the
customer. It seems that Jajah conveniently omitted some of their rules
from the already long and very difficult to satisfy list.



wrote:
Dear Naysolal,

I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
the call. You can find the details here
http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/

The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
up before you make the call next to the call button.

We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
I will get back to you by email to handle this.

Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.

Best, Frederik



Hi,

Thanks for your response.

I would suggest a general approach of using a sandtrap type method with
these / new services. I.e. do not provide any payment or pay for any
services initially (as / if possible), or only a very small token payment
you are happy to lose (so that in the event of any unexpected problems or
issues one is not really aggrieved and can move on with little or no loss).

As I understand it, with Jajah, it is, theoretically at least, possible to
use the service without ever generating a "charge". I am not sure if the
user(s) in question are "paying" customers and are experiencing billing
errors on that side (but the above "sandtrap" paragraph would apply).
Perhaps that is a different matter (which I don't really know anything about
[the paid side of their services] - apologies ). I can understand that if
either due to the difficulty of ensuring and maintaining free calls, or a
bug / error, one has generated a chargeable event, one can then feel a bit
aggrieved / stymied - what with having had to register a phone number with
them in the first place (and presumably having to provide them with some
payment to resume operation). Anyhow, I understand (rightly or wrongly - and
you could be hitting a very poignant nail on the head here), that their
support is quite good (or posts on the forum, possibly by representatives
suggest their support is quite good - the results may be different), and
they will try to for example reallocate your number / reset your account if
their has been some error / etc.

Keep us posted.


Best wishes,




News Reader



  #6  
Old December 6th 06, 10:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Stay away from jajah

(Just reposted with other email address)

Dear Naysolal,

I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
the call. You can find the details here
http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/

The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
up before you make the call next to the call button.

We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
I will get back to you by email to handle this.

Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.

Best, Frederik

  #7  
Old December 6th 06, 10:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Stay away from jajah

Dear Naysolal,

I actually don't quite understand your answer to my response. I do not
work for the Jajah customer support, which is also responsable for
handling our forum. I'm a Jajah employee working in a different country
than our support (9 hours timeshift in between).

I don't have template answers, I do care about our users and just
wanted to provide an answer and my help to you. I totally admitted that
there might be a bug and I reported this issue to our development team.
I don't know your friends' problem, nor do I know his name or the
specific circumstances because you posted it as your problem. I took
and take the time to answer you in this forum, trying to help solving
your problem.

I wrote you an even more detailed personal email, but instead of
answering to this email you preferred to blame more stuff on me over
here. Don't get that, sorry.

I'm happy to assist you or your friend in solving the described
problem. Just get back to me by email.

Best, Frederik

  #8  
Old December 7th 06, 03:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
News Reader
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default Stay away from jajah



wrote in message
ups.com...
Dear Naysolal,

I actually don't quite understand your answer to my response. I do not
work for the Jajah customer support, which is also responsable for
handling our forum. I'm a Jajah employee working in a different country
than our support (9 hours timeshift in between).

I don't have template answers, I do care about our users and just
wanted to provide an answer and my help to you. I totally admitted that
there might be a bug and I reported this issue to our development team.
I don't know your friends' problem, nor do I know his name or the
specific circumstances because you posted it as your problem. I took
and take the time to answer you in this forum, trying to help solving
your problem.

I wrote you an even more detailed personal email, but instead of
answering to this email you preferred to blame more stuff on me over
here. Don't get that, sorry.

I'm happy to assist you or your friend in solving the described
problem. Just get back to me by email.

Best, Frederik



Hi,


Well done for trying.


Best wishes,



News Reader



  #9  
Old December 7th 06, 06:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Stay away from jajah

Thanks News Reader!

So, if you have any questions, feedback or problems just get back to me
by email at anytime.

Best regards and talk JAJAH - www.jajah.com :-)

Frederik

  #10  
Old December 17th 06, 07:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Stay away from jajah

I can atest to the validity of these claims, too.
The jajah customer service sucks.
They employ the old school approach of "good cop bad cop".
Some of the "users" on their forums are employees who attack and bite
like stray dogs - they must be DIBs or something...

I found packet8 VOIP much more worthwhile. You get to pay only $20 a
month and talk as much as you want. Packet8 has no way of overcharging
you - even if they want to - even if you make a mistake.

Perhaps there is better alternative than packet8 (in terms of
inexpensive international calls), but it is certainly not jajah.

Victor

wrote:
After evaluating the jajah service for several weeks I came to the
conclusion that we are dealing here with a scamming company that is
relying on naive or ignorant users.

The company will provide you with a few free phone calls - and then
pull the sting opreation: without any notice or alert it will charge a
free call as non-free, deplete your account to a level where you can no
longer make free calls (even to active members), forcing you to pay
ransom to unlock your account.

Thereafter the trick will continue... You make a call for 30 minutes,
they charge you for 45 minutes. They will keep overcharging your
account until... you notice it of course.

If you attempt to resolve this with their "JAJAH support", they will
keep stonewalling you evasive answers and when that doesn't help, they
will intimidate you with rude replies. Read for yourself in their
"support" forums:

http://forum.jajah.com/viewforum.php?f=2

You can try that service and see for yourself - it is free - until...
(you get the picture)

Just a friendly warning to all the unsuspecting folks out there.

Naysolal


 




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