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VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 31st 06, 10:20 AM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.

There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.

The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) has recently ruled that Dell
Computers misled customers when advertising items to the general public,
the ASA stated that when advertising good to the general public, VAT
inclusive prices must be quoted, and these VAT inclusive prices must be
at least as prominent as the VAT exclusive price if the VAT exclusive
price is used, in other words, the VAT inclusive price must be stated
alongside the VAT exclusive price, and the type face used must be at
least as large and as clear as the VAT exclusive price.

Below is a quote from the article in PCPro magazine, the links to the
article and the ASA ruling are given below the quote, so please, if you
are a business, and selling goods or items to the general public, as
well as to other companies, lets have VAT inclusive prices quoted in
your adverts, and stop trying to hide behind the mistaken belief that
you do not have to comply with the law on quoting VAT inclusive prices
in your adverts.

Quote 'We nevertheless considered that, because the insert targeted
both the general public and businesses, the VAT-inclusive prices should
have been given at least equal prominence to the VAT-exclusive prices.
We also considered that, because the desktops could be of interest to
non-business users who would be unable to get a desktop for 199, the
approach of using a "from" price excluding VAT was misleading. '

ASA told Dell to take greater care in future. Specifically, it should
'avoid errors that could lead to consumer disappointment'. The
organisation also told Dell to ensure that VAT-inclusive and
VAT-exclusive prices were quoted with equal prominence in adverts with a
general readership. /Quote

http://www.pcpro.co.uk:80/news/99545...-says-asa.html

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudicati..._ADJ_42026.htm







  #2  
Old December 31st 06, 10:49 AM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
A C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.

Although our eBay listings inc VAT, the ASA ruling will not affect eBay,
unless eBay changed the policy on VAT & make sellers either list with VAT
inc or to show the correct price within the listing & not just "17.5% VAT
will be added to the final price".

It should be standard practice everywhere to quote the full price inc VAT
rather than the exc VAT price, which is normally shown as buy x from xxxx
to mislead customer thinking its a good deal only to add 17.5% to the final
price.

--

A C

http://AbbeyCross.co.uk

Delete REMOVE to Reply


  #3  
Old December 31st 06, 10:51 AM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Raj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.


"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
reenews.net...
There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.

The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) has recently ruled that Dell
Computers misled customers when advertising items to the general public,
the ASA stated that when advertising good to the general public, VAT
inclusive prices must be quoted, and these VAT inclusive prices must be
at least as prominent as the VAT exclusive price if the VAT exclusive
price is used, in other words, the VAT inclusive price must be stated
alongside the VAT exclusive price, and the type face used must be at
least as large and as clear as the VAT exclusive price.

Below is a quote from the article in PCPro magazine, the links to the
article and the ASA ruling are given below the quote, so please, if you
are a business, and selling goods or items to the general public, as
well as to other companies, lets have VAT inclusive prices quoted in
your adverts, and stop trying to hide behind the mistaken belief that
you do not have to comply with the law on quoting VAT inclusive prices
in your adverts.

Quote 'We nevertheless considered that, because the insert targeted
both the general public and businesses, the VAT-inclusive prices should
have been given at least equal prominence to the VAT-exclusive prices.
We also considered that, because the desktops could be of interest to
non-business users who would be unable to get a desktop for 199, the
approach of using a "from" price excluding VAT was misleading. '

ASA told Dell to take greater care in future. Specifically, it should
'avoid errors that could lead to consumer disappointment'. The
organisation also told Dell to ensure that VAT-inclusive and
VAT-exclusive prices were quoted with equal prominence in adverts with a
general readership. /Quote

http://www.pcpro.co.uk:80/news/99545...-says-asa.html

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudicati..._ADJ_42026.htm





Thanks for information.
It will be fair on customers if both prices are displayed in same size.

Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?


Raj Kundra
Kundra Computers


  #4  
Old December 31st 06, 11:47 AM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.


"Raj" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
reenews.net...
There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently
about
if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when
advertising
goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive
prices
when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from
quoting
VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.

The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) has recently ruled that Dell
Computers misled customers when advertising items to the general
public,
the ASA stated that when advertising good to the general public, VAT
inclusive prices must be quoted, and these VAT inclusive prices must
be
at least as prominent as the VAT exclusive price if the VAT exclusive
price is used, in other words, the VAT inclusive price must be stated
alongside the VAT exclusive price, and the type face used must be at
least as large and as clear as the VAT exclusive price.

Below is a quote from the article in PCPro magazine, the links to the
article and the ASA ruling are given below the quote, so please, if
you
are a business, and selling goods or items to the general public, as
well as to other companies, lets have VAT inclusive prices quoted in
your adverts, and stop trying to hide behind the mistaken belief that
you do not have to comply with the law on quoting VAT inclusive
prices
in your adverts.

Quote 'We nevertheless considered that, because the insert targeted
both the general public and businesses, the VAT-inclusive prices
should
have been given at least equal prominence to the VAT-exclusive
prices.
We also considered that, because the desktops could be of interest to
non-business users who would be unable to get a desktop for 199, the
approach of using a "from" price excluding VAT was misleading. '

ASA told Dell to take greater care in future. Specifically, it should
'avoid errors that could lead to consumer disappointment'. The
organisation also told Dell to ensure that VAT-inclusive and
VAT-exclusive prices were quoted with equal prominence in adverts
with a
general readership. /Quote

http://www.pcpro.co.uk:80/news/99545...-says-asa.html

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudicati..._ADJ_42026.htm


Thanks for information.
It will be fair on customers if both prices are displayed in same
size.

Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?


This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
documentation. The ruling by the ASA, against a high profile company,
has now made it much clearer, and hopefully, companies will act on it as
soon as possible to avoid being reported to the ASA themselves. I cannot
see any justification for quoting VAT exclusive prices for goods or
items offered for sale to the general public, other than to mislead, and
any company doing this needs reporting.

Regarding eBay, perhaps someone should send a copy of the ruling to
them, it is probably their responsibility to remove any advertisement
which doesn't comply with the ASA ruling, and eBay should enforce it.


  #5  
Old December 31st 06, 12:24 PM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Peter Parry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:47:52 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
wrote:

This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
documentation.


What is difficult to understand or define or "legal jargon" about :-

"Obligation to indicate selling price
4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2) and articles 9 and 10, where
a trader indicates that any product is or may be for sale to a
consumer, he shall indicate the selling price of that product in
accordance with the provisions of this Order."

""selling price" means the final price for a unit of a product, or a
given quantity of a product, including VAT and all other taxes;"

(Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 102 The Price Marking Order 2004)

The ruling by the ASA, against a high profile company,
has now made it much clearer,


ASA "rulings" (actually they are adjudications) have no particular
weight at all, the ASA is a private body set up and funded by the
advertising industry and its adjudications have no statutory
significance.

I cannot see any justification for quoting VAT exclusive prices for goods or
items offered for sale to the general public, other than to mislead, and
any company doing this needs reporting.


To Trading Standards as they are breaking the law - not the ASA which
is a toothless tiger.

Regarding eBay, perhaps someone should send a copy of the ruling to
them, it is probably their responsibility to remove any advertisement
which doesn't comply with the ASA ruling, and eBay should enforce it.


It isn't their responsibility as ASA adjudications have no legal
significance whatsoever.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
  #6  
Old December 31st 06, 02:01 PM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.


"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:47:52 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
wrote:

This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
documentation.


What is difficult to understand or define or "legal jargon" about :-

"Obligation to indicate selling price
4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2) and articles 9 and 10, where
a trader indicates that any product is or may be for sale to a
consumer, he shall indicate the selling price of that product in
accordance with the provisions of this Order."

""selling price" means the final price for a unit of a product, or a
given quantity of a product, including VAT and all other taxes;"

(Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 102 The Price Marking Order 2004)


It was stated earlier that companies supplying other companies have been
using the excuse that they are entitled to state VAT exclusive prices to
the general public because VAT exclusive prices are the prices they use
normally. Although I have never agreed with this, it has been hard to
find a clear example to show how they are wrong, and so the ASA ruling,
or adjudication, against Dell has now made this much clearer by
combining the sales to the general public with the sales to other
businesses, and stating it in their ruling. I am sure that Dell's
lawyers would have gone through the details with a fine tooth comb
before apologising for their mistake, so the point I was making with
this thread was that all sales and services, offered with stated prices
to the general public, must include the VAT inclusive price, which must
be displayed as prominently as the VAT exclusive price if a VAT
exclusive price is used, irrespective of if the company supplies mostly
other VAT registered companies.


  #7  
Old December 31st 06, 02:53 PM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Richard Colton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.


"Bargepole" "=?x-user-defined?Q? @ ?=" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 10:51:45 GMT, "Raj"
wrote:

Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?


Cheatbay doesn'r enforce anything. I wouldn't touch them...


Change the record.

--
Unlock Your Phone's Potential
www.uselessinfo.org.uk
www.thephonelocker.co.uk
www.gsm-solutions.co.uk


  #8  
Old December 31st 06, 03:12 PM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Schrodinger's Cat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.


"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:47:52 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
wrote:

This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
documentation.


What is difficult to understand or define or "legal jargon" about :-

"Obligation to indicate selling price
4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2) and articles 9 and 10, where
a trader indicates that any product is or may be for sale to a
consumer, he shall indicate the selling price of that product in
accordance with the provisions of this Order."

""selling price" means the final price for a unit of a product, or a
given quantity of a product, including VAT and all other taxes;"

(Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 102 The Price Marking Order 2004)


Thanks Peter - that's helpful.

Martin


  #9  
Old December 31st 06, 03:15 PM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Alison Hopkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.


"Richard Colton" wrote in message
. uk...

"Bargepole" "=?x-user-defined?Q? @ ?=" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 10:51:45 GMT, "Raj"
wrote:

Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?


Cheatbay doesn'r enforce anything. I wouldn't touch them...


Change the record.


Interestingly. Tazbar have been running TV ads. Wonder how well they are
really doing.

Ali


  #10  
Old December 31st 06, 03:19 PM posted to alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains,uk.people.consumers.ebay,uk.telecom.voip
Peter Parry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:01:05 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
wrote:


It was stated earlier that companies supplying other companies have been
using the excuse that they are entitled to state VAT exclusive prices to
the general public because VAT exclusive prices are the prices they use
normally.


That excuse is clearly wrong. It didn't take the ASA to show it, one
merely has to read the PMO.

Where there is slight confusion (and will continue to be) is with
retailers who advertise as trade suppliers (and are predominantly
trade suppliers) but in practice accept orders from consumers. Most
people buying from such suppliers know what they are doing though and
are unlikely to be misled.

Although I have never agreed with this, it has been hard to
find a clear example to show how they are wrong,


It's clearly stated in the PMO and Dell are by no means the first to
have been found in default on this.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
 




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