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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

providers and voip regulations



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 31st 07, 03:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default providers and voip regulations

Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me

Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.

I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws www.vonage.co.uk
and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk

I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

  #2  
Old May 31st 07, 06:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default providers and voip regulations

wrote:

Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me

Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.

I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws
www.vonage.co.uk
and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk

I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?


By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0

  #3  
Old May 31st 07, 06:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default providers and voip regulations

On 31 May, 17:32, alexd wrote:
wrote:
Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me


Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.


I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
http://www.voiptalk.org,www.tescoint...ti mico.co.uk


I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?


By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
companies that are adhering to these laws

my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
near future.

also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

Tom

  #4  
Old May 31st 07, 09:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 188
Default providers and voip regulations


wrote in message
ups.com...
On 31 May, 17:32, alexd wrote:
wrote:
Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me


Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.


I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
http://www.voiptalk.org,www.tescoint...ti mico.co.uk


I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?


By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
companies that are adhering to these laws

my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
near future.

also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

Tom


The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
cost me next to nothing to run.
If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
my budget providers to remain just that.

Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
services limitations.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%


  #5  
Old May 31st 07, 11:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default providers and voip regulations

On May 31, 8:38 pm, "Graham" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...





On 31 May, 17:32, alexd wrote:
wrote:
Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me


Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.


I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
andwww.voipfone.co.ukthislimits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
http://www.voiptalk.org,www.tescoint...ti mico.co.uk


I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?


By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.


Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
new lawshttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/having
read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
companies that are adhering to these laws


my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
near future.


also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.


Tom


The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
cost me next to nothing to run.
If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
my budget providers to remain just that.

Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
services limitations.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


And of course comply with the laws of the country that they wish to
sell in otherwise what is the point in making laws that are for the
benefit of the end user.

As far as I'm aware the companies I mentioned in my previous posts are
all uk companies but while I'm on the subject www.sipgate.co.uk don't
seem to be taking any notice of the laws either.

Ironic really when you consider that they can sell to the uk and
provide uk numbers yet the German government won't allow German
numbers to be sold outside of Germany because THATS THE LAW

  #6  
Old May 31st 07, 11:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Brian A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,037
Default providers and voip regulations

On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham" wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
On 31 May, 17:32, alexd wrote:
wrote:
Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me

Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.

I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
andwww.voipfone.co.ukthis limits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
http://www.voiptalk.org,www.tescoint...ti mico.co.uk

I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?

By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these
regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't
complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
new laws http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/ having
read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
companies that are adhering to these laws

my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
near future.

also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

Tom


The providers I use (for home use) are based outside the UK and
cost me next to nothing to run.
If they were forced to route 999/112 to the national emergency services
how would they know which nation. If they base it on the country I
submitted on sign-up, what happens if I use the service on holiday?
Could it be based in IP address, is that 100% reliable?
Assuming it could work somehow it all sounds very expensive for
my budget providers to remain just that.

Please leave things as they are. It's horses for courses, the only thing
the providers should be compelled to do is clearly set out their
services limitations.

voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I remember
correctly, they do say that you may need to give your location.
However, on their customer site, there is a place for entering your
address details for the 999 service.
Frankly, as regards people being informed about the reliability of
voip compared to a landline, I think it is just stupid.
Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones inform people
that the phones won't work when the power goes off. It amounts to the
same thing. If people can't work out that ATAs, and the like, require
power to work then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
think that the majority of people are aware that their cordless phones
won't work in a power outage. Some people say to me that they don't
need their wired phone now they have cordless, I often have to inform
them of the power problem.
Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still works so I
power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and an 240V inverter.

Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of Vonage and similar
companies) are well aware of voip limitations - they set up their own
ATAs so they are not stupid.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

Sign petition to get High Definition TV via Freeview.
Ofcom want to aution off the spectrum needed for Hi Def
TV.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/High-Definition/
  #7  
Old May 31st 07, 11:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default providers and voip regulations

wrote in message
ps.com

[snip]

Ironic really when you consider that they can sell to the
uk and provide uk numbers yet the German government won't
allow German numbers to be sold outside of Germany
because THATS THE LAW


Sipgate don't sell numbers, they're free.


Ivor


  #8  
Old May 31st 07, 11:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default providers and voip regulations

On May 31, 5:51 pm, wrote:
On 31 May, 17:32, alexd wrote:





wrote:
Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
questions for me


Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
for me.


I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
providers that seem to be adhering to these new lawswww.vonage.co.uk
andwww.voipfone.co.ukthislimits my options unless I am repaired to
take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
sticking to the rules for examplewww.gradwell.com,www.voip.co.uk,
http://www.voiptalk.org,www.tescoint...ti mico.co.uk


I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
these new laws just be ignored?


By its very nature [the "over IP" bit], you don't need to be in the UK to
operate a VoIP service targeting the UK.


Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


Perhaps you could refresh our memories by telling us what these regulations
are. And how you know that the organisations you've listed aren't complying
with them. And why you care. I've been using voip.co.uk for 8 months now,
seemingly without ill effect.
--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
17:27:54 up 32 days, 19:28, 2 users, load average: 1.10, 0.45, 0.31
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


it would seem that providers were given 2 months to comply with the
new lawshttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/29/ofcom_voip/having
read through the regulations i can only see the two above mentioned
companies that are adhering to these laws

my concerns are will offcom or the government close down companies
that have not complied and if so would i want to take a chance moving
my telecoms over to companies that are not going to be around in the
near future.

also if companies are blatantly ignoring what is now law what other
laws are they breaking for example data protection, data retention and
so on just rings alarm bells in my mind.

Tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I looked at Sipgate because they're mentioned a lot here. They give
out UK numbers but they seem to be German. How do they do that? Can I
get a German number from a UK company? do they have the same laws?

Tom

  #9  
Old June 1st 07, 12:00 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default providers and voip regulations

"Brian A" wrote in message

On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:38:52 +0100, "Graham"
wrote:


[snip]

Please leave things as they are. It's horses for
courses, the only thing the providers should be
compelled to do is clearly set out their services
limitations.


voip.co.uk has always provided a 999 service, but, if I
remember correctly, they do say that you may need to give
your location. However, on their customer site, there is
a place for entering your address details for the 999
service.


To be quite honest, I don't know what all the fuss is about 999 access.
Most people have mobiles these days, in a business environment it's highly
unlikely that there will be nobody on site with one. There will also
usually be at least one BT line, perhaps for a fax (fax over SIP, for
example, is still somewhat problematic). This could be used for 999 calls,
perhaps..?

Here, my system is programmed so that any 999 calls are automatically
routed over the BT line, it's an easy step in the setup of the Fritz!Box
that acts as the main router/ATA.

Frankly, as regards people being informed about the
reliability of voip compared to a landline, I think it is
just stupid.


People *are* stupid, you have to tell them how to do everything. Why, I
have no idea as they rarely read the instructions..!

Why don't they suggest that vendors of cordless phones
inform people that the phones won't work when the power
goes off. It amounts to the same thing. If people can't
work out that ATAs, and the like, require power to work
then they have to be stupid - having said that I don't
think that the majority of people are aware that their
cordless phones won't work in a power outage. Some people
say to me that they don't need their wired phone now they
have cordless, I often have to inform them of the power
problem.


Every cordless phone I've bought has a notice in the instruction book that
a wired phone will be required for emergency access in the event of a
power failure. But I'm one of those rare people that actually read them,
so I saw this ;-)

Fortunately, when I get a power cut, my broadband still
works so I power all my voip stuff with a 12V battery and
an 240V inverter.


I run all my comms stuff off a UPS.

Most of the people who use voip (excluding users of
Vonage and similar companies) are well aware of voip
limitations - they set up their own ATAs so they are not
stupid.


Some of them are, unfortunately.

Ivor


  #10  
Old June 1st 07, 12:03 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,969
Default providers and voip regulations

wrote in message
ups.com

[snip]

I looked at Sipgate because they're mentioned a lot here.
They give out UK numbers but they seem to be German. How
do they do that?


Because they trade in the UK.

Can I get a German number from a UK company? do they have the same laws?


You can get numbers from a lot of countries from a lot of providers. I
have US, German and UK numbers from several.

Ivor


 




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