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RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 3rd 07, 12:09 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
jkn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

Hi All
following my posting last week I've got my SPA3102 up and running
VoIP through my Router.

The next thing I want to do, and am having a little trouble with, is
using the same phone for both VoIP and PSTN. I've put in a dial plan
which I think should work (based on postings in this fine newsgroup)
and connected the ATA 'Line' RJ-11 port to my Telephone socket usng
the supplied RJ-11 to RJ-11 lead, and a PSTN-to-modem adapter I had
kicking around (I did remember to buy the other adapter which was
required, to connect my 'phone to the ATA ;-) ).

However things don't seem to be working - keying in '*9' to get the
PSTN line is not giving me the familiar tone. I know that American RJ-
ll cables come in different varieties; do I need the other style' of
adapter, or another (which?) variety of RJ-11 to PSTN cable. I see
that Maplin, for instance, flog two types: would I need a

"Telephone Socket to Modem Cord"
This telephone conversion line cord is 3m (approximately) and has a BT
type telephone plug at one end and a US type telephone plug (RJ11) at
the other. The conductors are suitably crossed (1-2, 2-1, 3-4 & 4-3)
and the cord finds most use in connecting fax/modems, etc.

or a

"BT to US Extension Cord"
A range of BT to RJ11 pin to pin extension cables, suitable as a
replacement line cords for most telephones.

Thanks for your thoughts

jon N

  #2  
Old July 3rd 07, 12:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Jono
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

jkn was thinking very hard :
Hi All
following my posting last week I've got my SPA3102 up and running
VoIP through my Router.

The next thing I want to do, and am having a little trouble with, is
using the same phone for both VoIP and PSTN. I've put in a dial plan
which I think should work (based on postings in this fine newsgroup)
and connected the ATA 'Line' RJ-11 port to my Telephone socket usng
the supplied RJ-11 to RJ-11 lead, and a PSTN-to-modem adapter I had
kicking around (I did remember to buy the other adapter which was
required, to connect my 'phone to the ATA ;-) ).


Have you not got an old modem lead lying around - RJ11 to BT style? Can
you canibalise a POTS phone...?

With the cables as you have them, if you power off the ATA & lift the
connected handset, do you hear the PSTN line dial tone? You should, if
the cables/adapters are correct.

However things don't seem to be working - keying in '*9' to get the
PSTN line is not giving me the familiar tone.


It won't. (could do with seeing your dialplan at this point)

The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.

Have you got any credentials set on the PSTN tab? even dummy ones?


I know that American RJ-
ll cables come in different varieties; do I need the other style' of
adapter, or another (which?) variety of RJ-11 to PSTN cable. I see
that Maplin, for instance, flog two types: would I need a

"Telephone Socket to Modem Cord"
This telephone conversion line cord is 3m (approximately) and has a BT
type telephone plug at one end and a US type telephone plug (RJ11) at
the other. The conductors are suitably crossed (1-2, 2-1, 3-4 & 4-3)
and the cord finds most use in connecting fax/modems, etc.

or a

"BT to US Extension Cord"
A range of BT to RJ11 pin to pin extension cables, suitable as a
replacement line cords for most telephones.

Thanks for your thoughts

jon N



  #3  
Old July 3rd 07, 12:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
jkn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

Hi Jono

[...]

Have you not got an old modem lead lying around - RJ11 to BT style? Can
you canibalise a POTS phone...?


'Yes, possibly' to both - that's why I was asking whether this would
be necessary. Also see below.


With the cables as you have them, if you power off the ATA & lift the
connected handset, do you hear the PSTN line dial tone? You should, if
the cables/adapters are correct.


Since my original postings I've hacked the little adapter I referred
to, swapping the inner & outer pair. With that done, the phone passes
your test above. So the implication is that it wasn't right before.


However things don't seem to be working - keying in '*9' to get the
PSTN line is not giving me the familiar tone.


It won't. (could do with seeing your dialplan at this point)


Huh?

FWIW my dialplan is:

(xx.|*9,:xx.:@gw0)



The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.


Is this true? I understood that the :@gw0 referred to the PSTN line.


Have you got any credentials set on the PSTN tab? even dummy ones?

No - and if what you say above is true then I guess this could be the
issue. But I may have to be convinced further, that I have
misunderstood the operation of this particular feature.

Thanks
Jon N

  #4  
Old July 3rd 07, 08:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Jono
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

jkn brought next idea :
Hi Jono

[...]

Have you not got an old modem lead lying around - RJ11 to BT style? Can
you canibalise a POTS phone...?


'Yes, possibly' to both - that's why I was asking whether this would
be necessary. Also see below.


With the cables as you have them, if you power off the ATA & lift the
connected handset, do you hear the PSTN line dial tone? You should, if
the cables/adapters are correct.


Since my original postings I've hacked the little adapter I referred
to, swapping the inner & outer pair. With that done, the phone passes
your test above. So the implication is that it wasn't right before.


If you have dialtone with the power off, you're a significant step
closer..!


However things don't seem to be working - keying in '*9' to get the
PSTN line is not giving me the familiar tone.


It won't. (could do with seeing your dialplan at this point)


Huh?

FWIW my dialplan is:

(xx.|*9,:xx.:@gw0)


Your *9, element (the comma in particular) is what's resposible for
giving you a "second" dial tone. The pitch of which is determined by
settings on the regional tab.

The comma isn't actually necessary, except to provide you with an
audible indication of choosing a different line.

You won't hear the BT dial tone, unless you power off the adapter.

The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.


Is this true? I understood that the :@gw0 referred to the PSTN line.


Yes it's true. It is. Really. (I've never found anything to the
contrary)

Yes, gw0 is the PSTN line, however, the way the call is set up is for
an internal VoIP call between the two halves of the device.

Have you got any credentials set on the PSTN tab? even dummy ones?

No - and if what you say above is true then I guess this could be the
issue. But I may have to be convinced further, that I have
misunderstood the operation of this particular feature.


IIWY, I would put the same VoIP credentials on the PSTN tab as you have
on the Line One tab.

Have you got anywhere you could upload a saved copy of the SPA's html
pages for us to look at? Files/Save As .mht. (do this whilst signed in
as admin/advanced.) Although your usernames will be visible, none of
your passwords will be.


  #5  
Old July 3rd 07, 08:55 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
PhilT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

On 3 Jul, 19:09, Jono wrote:
hear the BT dial tone, unless you power off the adapter.

The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.


Is this true? I understood that the :@gw0 referred to the PSTN line.


Yes it's true. It is. Really. (I've never found anything to the
contrary)

Yes, gw0 is the PSTN line, however, the way the call is set up is for
an internal VoIP call between the two halves of the device.


you can use the PSTN out without any VoIP settings attributed to the
PSTN line so I'm failing to see how this can work.

It has the capability to receive a voice call and route it out onto
the PSTN, but I can't see that happening to make a PSTN call from the
attached handset - you would be charged twice for starters !

Phil

  #6  
Old July 3rd 07, 09:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
jkn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

Hi Jono
thanks for your reply:

[...]

Since my original postings I've hacked the little adapter I referred
to, swapping the inner & outer pair. With that done, the phone passes
your test above. So the implication is that it wasn't right before.


If you have dialtone with the power off, you're a significant step
closer..!

Yep.



However things don't seem to be working - keying in '*9' to get the
PSTN line is not giving me the familiar tone.


It won't. (could do with seeing your dialplan at this point)


Huh?


FWIW my dialplan is:


(xx.|*9,:xx.:@gw0)


Your *9, element (the comma in particular) is what's resposible for
giving you a "second" dial tone.


Yes, I realise this.

The pitch of which is determined by
settings on the regional tab.


I don't think so.


The comma isn't actually necessary, except to provide you with an
audible indication of choosing a different line.


Yes, I get that.

You won't hear the BT dial tone, unless you power off the adapter.


OK - I tried changing the outside dial tone setting, from

[email protected],[email protected];10(*/0/1+2)

to something else, and the difference between the two 'tones after I
press *9' was audible - so I'll grant you this one ;-)

The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.


Is this true? I understood that the :@gw0 referred to the PSTN line.


Yes it's true. It is. Really. (I've never found anything to the
contrary)

Yes, gw0 is the PSTN line, however, the way the call is set up is for
an internal VoIP call between the two halves of the device.


I *think* PhilT in the posting below is also questioning this. I
haven't tried his proof yet...

Have you got any credentials set on the PSTN tab? even dummy ones?


No - and if what you say above is true then I guess this could be the
issue. But I may have to be convinced further, that I have
misunderstood the operation of this particular feature.


IIWY, I would put the same VoIP credentials on the PSTN tab as you have
on the Line One tab.

I guess by 'credentials' you mean Proxy & Registration settings etc?

As it happens I have done that, and things seem to be getting better.
I can only test at certain times of day for familial harmony...

Have you got anywhere you could upload a saved copy of the SPA's html
pages for us to look at? Files/Save As .mht. (do this whilst signed in
as admin/advanced.) Although your usernames will be visible, none of
your passwords will be.


I can do that but at the moment things are looking promising. My
question has changed a bit, now it's more like "What is the correct
description of how making a PSTN call works with this setup?"

Thanks
jon n

  #7  
Old July 3rd 07, 11:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Jono
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

PhilT explained :
On 3 Jul, 19:09, Jono wrote:
hear the BT dial tone, unless you power off the adapter.

The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.
Is this true? I understood that the :@gw0 referred to the PSTN line.


Yes it's true. It is. Really. (I've never found anything to the
contrary)

Yes, gw0 is the PSTN line, however, the way the call is set up is for
an internal VoIP call between the two halves of the device.


you can use the PSTN out without any VoIP settings attributed to the
PSTN line so I'm failing to see how this can work.


We are talking about an SPA3X0X aren't we?

I know it's not entirely necessary to have VoIP credentials on the PSTN
page, however, some of the gateway function only work if there are some
in there, at least in my experience. So, as the PSTN voip credentials
won't cause a 2nd registration with your ITSP to occur, there appears
to be no harm in inserting them.

It has the capability to receive a voice call and route it out onto
the PSTN, but I can't see that happening to make a PSTN call from the
attached handset - you would be charged twice for starters !


Eh? The VoIP call is purely /internal/ to the SPA - it goes nowhere
near your ITSP.

I actually use two of these devices to provide outbound & inbound PSTN
& GSM connectivity for an Asterisk server. Originally, though, they
were set up in the way the OP is attempting. You can, quite
categorically, make calls on the PSTN from the handset attached to Line
1.

A good resource for instructions can be found on the support pages at
www.provu.com &/or in the Linksys/Sipura forums on the voxilla.com
site.


  #8  
Old July 3rd 07, 11:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Jono
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

jkn brought next idea :
The pitch of which is determined by
settings on the regional tab.


I don't think so.


Oh yes it is ;-)


The comma isn't actually necessary, except to provide you with an
audible indication of choosing a different line.


Yes, I get that.

You won't hear the BT dial tone, unless you power off the adapter.


OK - I tried changing the outside dial tone setting, from

[email protected],[email protected];10(*/0/1+2)

to something else, and the difference between the two 'tones after I
press *9' was audible - so I'll grant you this one ;-)


Believe me now?


The Line 1 socket it only ever connected directly to the PSTN line if
you turn the power off. At all other times, an internal voip call is
made between Line 1 & PSTN accounts.
Is this true? I understood that the :@gw0 referred to the PSTN line.


Yes it's true. It is. Really. (I've never found anything to the
contrary)

Yes, gw0 is the PSTN line, however, the way the call is set up is for
an internal VoIP call between the two halves of the device.


I *think* PhilT in the posting below is also questioning this. I
haven't tried his proof yet...


Erm, what proof did he offer..? I couldn't spot it. I am tired though.

Have you got any credentials set on the PSTN tab? even dummy ones?
No - and if what you say above is true then I guess this could be the
issue. But I may have to be convinced further, that I have
misunderstood the operation of this particular feature.


IIWY, I would put the same VoIP credentials on the PSTN tab as you have
on the Line One tab.

I guess by 'credentials' you mean Proxy & Registration settings etc?


Username & password too.

As it happens I have done that, and things seem to be getting better.
I can only test at certain times of day for familial harmony...


Outbound calls shouldn't affect the harmoneous state of the jkn houshold.

Have you got anywhere you could upload a saved copy of the SPA's html
pages for us to look at? Files/Save As .mht. (do this whilst signed in
as admin/advanced.) Although your usernames will be visible, none of
your passwords will be.


I can do that but at the moment things are looking promising. My
question has changed a bit, now it's more like "What is the correct
description of how making a PSTN call works with this setup?"


Perhaps you could change it further to something I can understand...? :-)

Below are some settings {{{{Welcome}}}} was kind enough to post elsewhe

These are not specific to the SPA3X0X range ATAs and son't deal directly
with your PSTN functionality. Some may be useful to you, though.

Under Regional Tab.

Dial Tone: [email protected],[email protected];60(*/0/1+2)
Second Dial Tone: [email protected],[email protected];10(*/0/1+2)
Outside Dial Tone: [email protected];10(*/0/1)
Prompt Tone: [email protected],[email protected];10(*/0/1+2)
Busy Tone: /1)
Reorder Tone: [email protected];20(*/0/1)
Off Hook Warning Tone: /1+2)
Ring Back Tone: /2/1+2)
Confirm Tone: /1)
SIT1 Tone: /0/3,0/1/0)
SIT2 Tone: /0/3,0/4/0)
SIT3 Tone: /0/3,0/4/0)
SIT4 Tone: /0/3,0/4/0)
MWI Dial Tone: /1+2)
Cfwd Dial Tone: /1+2);10(*/0/1+2)
DND Dial Tone: /2);10(*/0/1+2)
Holding Tone: /1)
Conference Tone: /1)
Secure Call Indication Tone: /2)
Feature Invocation Tone: /1)

Ring1 Cadence: 60(.4/.2,.4/2)
Ring2 Cadence: 60(1/2)
Ring3 Cadence: 60(.25/.25,.25/.25,.25/1.75)

....

CWT1 Cadence: 30(.2/.2,.2/4.4)

Ring Waveform: Sinusoid (though Trapezoid may help problematic phones to ring).
Ring Frequency: 25
Ring Voltage: 80 (You can use 70, if problems try 75, 80, 85, 90)
CWT Frequency: [email protected]
Synchronized Ring: Yes

Hook Flash Timer Min: .06
Hook Flash Timer Max: .2
Callee On Hook Delay: 0
Reorder Delay: 5
Call Back Expires: 1800
Call Back Retry Intvl: 30
Call Back Delay: .5
VMWI Refresh Intvl: 0
Interdigit Long Timer: 10
Interdigit Short Timer: 3
CPC Delay: .5
CPC Duration: .1

....

Time Zone: GMT
FXS Port Impedance: 370+620||310nF
Daylight Saving Time Rule: start=3/-1/7/2:0:0;end=10/-1/7/2:0:0;save=1:0:0
DTMF Playback Level: -16
DTMF Playback Length: .25
Caller ID Method: ETSI FSK With PR(UK)
FXS Port Power Limit: 3
Caller ID FSK Standard: v.23
Feature Invocation Method: Default
More Echo Suppression: yes

In Line 1 (or Line 2)

Line Enable: yes
NAT Mapping Enable: yes
NAT Keep Alive Enable: yes
Network Jitter Level: low (Depends on how good your broadband is / route to VoIP server)
Jitter Buffer Adjustment: Up and Down


  #9  
Old July 3rd 07, 11:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
jkn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default RJ11 to ATA to PSTN cable?

Hi Jono

On Jul 3, 10:27 pm, Jono wrote:
jkn brought next idea :

The pitch of which is determined by
settings on the regional tab.


I don't think so.


Oh yes it is ;-)


My apologies - I meant to delete that line after my little test...

[...]


I *think* PhilT in the posting below is also questioning this. I
haven't tried his proof yet...


Erm, what proof did he offer..? I couldn't spot it. I am tired though.


I meant his comment that

* you can use the PSTN out without any VoIP settings attributed to the
* PSTN line so I'm failing to see how this can work.

(IIUC, I would phrase this as 'so i'm failing to see that it works
this way')

[...]

I can do that but at the moment things are looking promising. My
question has changed a bit, now it's more like "What is the correct
description of how making a PSTN call works with this setup?"


Perhaps you could change it further to something I can understand...? :-)


Well, I'm still puzzled (as is PhilT I think) about your assertion
that a PSTN call is made by means of an internal (to the SPA3102) VoIP
call. Can't such a unit 'just' make the equivalent of a passthrough
connection from the phone in to the line jack?

Can anyone else comment on this? It does seem strange to me.



Below are some settings {{{{Welcome}}}} was kind enough to post elsewhe

Thanks. I think i've got most of these from prior Googling, but I'll
go through and check.

[...]


Regards
Jon N

 




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