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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Fair use policy



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 21st 07, 10:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bill Ridgeway
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Fair use policy

The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a subscriber
exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be restricted. That,as
far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is unfair is that the fair
policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed. This gives the provider the
unfair advantage of deciding what is fair, changing thresholds and applying
consequences as it sees fit and imposing all of this without any right of
appeal. The only way out would be to change ISP but the hassle of changing
ISP to another one which would, probably, also have a fair use policy would,
probably, not be worth it. An analogy (perhaps not a good one) would be the
police giving you a speeding ticket when speed restriction notices are not
displayed.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway


  #2  
Old December 21st 07, 10:27 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
George Weston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Fair use policy


"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a subscriber
exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be restricted. That,as
far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is unfair is that the fair
policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed. This gives the provider
the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair, changing thresholds and
applying consequences as it sees fit and imposing all of this without any
right of appeal. The only way out would be to change ISP but the hassle
of changing ISP to another one which would, probably, also have a fair use
policy would, probably, not be worth it. An analogy (perhaps not a good
one) would be the police giving you a speeding ticket when speed
restriction notices are not displayed.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway


You summed up the situation very succinctly.
The question now is, what can we do about it?
The answer is, not a lot, apart from checking every ISP's fair use policy
and migrating to the one that gives the best deal.

George


  #3  
Old December 21st 07, 10:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,222
Default Fair use policy



Bill Ridgeway wrote:

The only way out would be to change ISP but the hassle of changing
ISP to another one which would, probably, also have a fair use policy would,
probably, not be worth it.


Why do you think changing ISP is a hassle ?

I've used Vossnet, UKonline, Freeuk (dial-up only), NTL (both dial-up and
broadband), Plusnet and now Idnet (broadband) over the years. It hasn't been a
hassle for me.

Graham

  #4  
Old December 21st 07, 11:05 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
ABC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Fair use policy


"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a subscriber
exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be restricted. That,as
far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is unfair is that the fair
policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed. This gives the provider
the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair, changing thresholds and
applying consequences as it sees fit and imposing all of this without any
right of appeal. The only way out would be to change ISP but the hassle
of changing ISP to another one which would, probably, also have a fair use
policy would, probably, not be worth it. An analogy (perhaps not a good
one) would be the police giving you a speeding ticket when speed
restriction notices are not displayed.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway


Yerp and in comes under the Unfair Terms Act.


  #5  
Old December 21st 07, 11:13 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bill Ridgeway
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Fair use policy

"George Weston" wrote in message
...

"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a
subscriber exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be
restricted. That,as far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is
unfair is that the fair policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed.
This gives the provider the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair,
changing thresholds and applying consequences as it sees fit and imposing
all of this without any right of appeal. The only way out would be to
change ISP but the hassle of changing ISP to another one which would,
probably, also have a fair use policy would, probably, not be worth it.
An analogy (perhaps not a good one) would be the police giving you a
speeding ticket when speed restriction notices are not displayed.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway


You summed up the situation very succinctly.
The question now is, what can we do about it?
The answer is, not a lot, apart from checking every ISP's fair use policy
and migrating to the one that gives the best deal.

George


Thanks George. I don't like the idea ISPs relying on the morally dishonest
device of issuing vague conditions AND declining to reveal details. The
message is something along the lines of "we'll do what we want and we don't
care because everyone is doing it so you don't have any choice". What can
we do about it? The practical answer is likely to be not a lot but any
practical suggestion would be welcomed. The only thing I can suggest is to
complain to OFCOM. It seems to be interested in controlling ISPs on the
speed issue so unfair "fair conditions" may also take its interest.

Bill Ridgeway


  #6  
Old December 21st 07, 12:16 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Gizmo.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Fair use policy


"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a subscriber
exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be restricted. That,as
far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is unfair is that the fair
policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed. This gives the provider
the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair, changing thresholds and
applying consequences as it sees fit and imposing all of this without any
right of appeal. The only way out would be to change ISP but the hassle
of changing ISP to another one which would, probably, also have a fair use
policy would, probably, not be worth it. An analogy (perhaps not a good
one) would be the police giving you a speeding ticket when speed
restriction notices are not displayed.


I'm all in favour of ISPs going over to the PAYG (aka Aussie model) - which
I would imagine will come about in the next year or two - especially with
MOIP and TV over IP all being released in earnest. Therefore the more folk
use, the more they pay.
The last time I saw the "league table" at Telewest (must be 4 or so years
ago), 0.3% of broadband customers were using just over 85% of the data
transfered. All of them were sucking up over 500GB a month. IIRC the average
at the time was just under 2GB.


  #7  
Old December 21st 07, 12:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
PhilT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Fair use policy

On 21 Dec, 10:16, "Bill Ridgeway" wrote:
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a subscriber


An analogy (perhaps not a good one) would be the
police giving you a speeding ticket when speed restriction notices are not
displayed.


they can of course prosecute you for driving too fast for the
conditions etc even if below the speed limit :-)

The point of an FUP limit is to control the average use, the FUP cuts
in well above the average but it is not a figure that a large
proportion of users could run at.

The reason providers are reluctant to disclose numbers is because they
don't want people bunching up at the FUP limit as the average would
then be too high and the limit would have to fall.

An FUP also allows for discretion, like treating a persistent high
user differently to someone who hits a limit one month in ten. In a
way like the traffic cops used to do before speed cameras - make a
judgment.

Phil
  #8  
Old December 21st 07, 01:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,222
Default Fair use policy



Bill Ridgeway wrote:

"George Weston" wrote
"Bill Ridgeway" wrote

The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a
subscriber exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be
restricted. That,as far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is
unfair is that the fair policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed.
This gives the provider the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair,
changing thresholds and applying consequences as it sees fit and imposing
all of this without any right of appeal. The only way out would be to
change ISP but the hassle of changing ISP to another one which would,
probably, also have a fair use policy would, probably, not be worth it.
An analogy (perhaps not a good one) would be the police giving you a
speeding ticket when speed restriction notices are not displayed.


You summed up the situation very succinctly.
The question now is, what can we do about it?
The answer is, not a lot, apart from checking every ISP's fair use policy
and migrating to the one that gives the best deal.


Thanks George. I don't like the idea ISPs relying on the morally dishonest
device of issuing vague conditions AND declining to reveal details. The
message is something along the lines of "we'll do what we want and we don't
care because everyone is doing it so you don't have any choice". What can
we do about it? The practical answer is likely to be not a lot but any
practical suggestion would be welcomed. The only thing I can suggest is to
complain to OFCOM. It seems to be interested in controlling ISPs on the
speed issue so unfair "fair conditions" may also take its interest.


Plenty (the majority) of ISPs are entirely straighforward and honest about
these terms.

The rouges are typically the large consumer ISPs. All you have to do is avoid
them. They aren't particularly good value anyway.

Graham

  #9  
Old December 21st 07, 03:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
George Weston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Fair use policy


"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
"George Weston" wrote in message
...

"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a
subscriber exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be
restricted. That,as far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is
unfair is that the fair policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed.
This gives the provider the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair,
changing thresholds and applying consequences as it sees fit and
imposing all of this without any right of appeal. The only way out
would be to change ISP but the hassle of changing ISP to another one
which would, probably, also have a fair use policy would, probably, not
be worth it. An analogy (perhaps not a good one) would be the police
giving you a speeding ticket when speed restriction notices are not
displayed.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway


You summed up the situation very succinctly.
The question now is, what can we do about it?
The answer is, not a lot, apart from checking every ISP's fair use policy
and migrating to the one that gives the best deal.

George


Thanks George. I don't like the idea ISPs relying on the morally
dishonest device of issuing vague conditions AND declining to reveal
details. The message is something along the lines of "we'll do what we
want and we don't care because everyone is doing it so you don't have any
choice". What can we do about it? The practical answer is likely to be
not a lot but any practical suggestion would be welcomed. The only thing
I can suggest is to complain to OFCOM. It seems to be interested in
controlling ISPs on the speed issue so unfair "fair conditions" may also
take its interest.

Bill Ridgeway


Some ISPs are more honest and up-front in stating their service levels.
Here are Plusnet's:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadban...#Option4speeds

George




  #10  
Old December 21st 07, 04:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Old Codger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default Fair use policy

George Weston wrote:
"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
"George Weston" wrote in message
...
"Bill Ridgeway" wrote in message
...
The only references I've seen to "fair use policy" is that if a
subscriber exceeds the provider's fair use policy access will be
restricted. That,as far as it goes, may (or may not) be fair. What is
unfair is that the fair policy (the rules of the game) is not revealed.
This gives the provider the unfair advantage of deciding what is fair,
changing thresholds and applying consequences as it sees fit and
imposing all of this without any right of appeal. The only way out
would be to change ISP but the hassle of changing ISP to another one
which would, probably, also have a fair use policy would, probably, not
be worth it. An analogy (perhaps not a good one) would be the police
giving you a speeding ticket when speed restriction notices are not
displayed.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway
You summed up the situation very succinctly.
The question now is, what can we do about it?
The answer is, not a lot, apart from checking every ISP's fair use policy
and migrating to the one that gives the best deal.

George

Thanks George. I don't like the idea ISPs relying on the morally
dishonest device of issuing vague conditions AND declining to reveal
details. The message is something along the lines of "we'll do what we
want and we don't care because everyone is doing it so you don't have any
choice". What can we do about it? The practical answer is likely to be
not a lot but any practical suggestion would be welcomed. The only thing
I can suggest is to complain to OFCOM. It seems to be interested in
controlling ISPs on the speed issue so unfair "fair conditions" may also
take its interest.

Bill Ridgeway


Some ISPs are more honest and up-front in stating their service levels.
Here are Plusnet's:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadban...#Option4speeds


Hmmm! Has the leopard changed its spots? Possibly I suppose. They
are now part of BT and have a different boss man.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
 




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