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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

QoS Router



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 23rd 08, 07:32 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default QoS Router

Hi,

I am using a VoIP Router, which can manage QoS etc...
The only problem, that it cannot decrease a upload, if I receive a VoIP
phone call.....
I need to limit the bandwidth of my upload permanently (for the Website,
like max 4*32kbp )
I would expect to find one, which can decrease itself the upload, IF a
phone call is arriving !

- Do you know a clever one, which can do that ?

thanks and regards,

Steve
  #2  
Old January 24th 08, 02:47 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Martin²
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 848
Default QoS Router

Eh ? The purpose of QoS is to be able to give priority to certain type of
packets, in this case VoIP ones.
Therefore ANY router with QoS should be able to limit downloads when VoIP is
active.
Regards,
Martin


  #3  
Old January 24th 08, 08:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default QoS Router

Martin² wrote:
Eh ? The purpose of QoS is to be able to give priority to certain type of
packets, in this case VoIP ones.
Therefore ANY router with QoS should be able to limit downloads when VoIP is
active.
Regards,
Martin



Hi Martin,

Maybe I was not really clear :-(

Suppose that somebody is downloading a big ISO file from your website.
(your website is located in your house)
= the upload rate is maximum.....

Now, a phone call is arriving. for me, a clever router, will decrease
the upload (from your website) in order to be let you make your phone
call...
And this is precisely, what I cannot find. I need to give permanently
80% of my upload bandwidth to my website... in order to make phone
calls... with a correct audible voice.

Steve
  #4  
Old January 24th 08, 09:22 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 579
Default QoS Router

"Steve" wrote in message


[snip]

: : Hi Martin,
: :
: : Maybe I was not really clear :-(
: :
: : Suppose that somebody is downloading a big ISO file
: : from your website. (your website is located in your
: : house) = the upload rate is maximum.....
: :
: : Now, a phone call is arriving. for me, a clever router,
: : will decrease the upload (from your website) in order
: : to be let you make your phone call...
: : And this is precisely, what I cannot find. I need to
: : give permanently 80% of my upload bandwidth to my
: : website... in order to make phone calls... with a
: : correct audible voice.

For this amongst other reasons, it's not really a good idea to host a
website at home. Far better to use a commercial hosting service.

Ivor

  #5  
Old January 24th 08, 09:31 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Gordon Henderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 797
Default QoS Router

In article ,
Steve wrote:
Martin² wrote:
Eh ? The purpose of QoS is to be able to give priority to certain type of
packets, in this case VoIP ones.
Therefore ANY router with QoS should be able to limit downloads when VoIP is
active.
Regards,
Martin



Hi Martin,

Maybe I was not really clear :-(

Suppose that somebody is downloading a big ISO file from your website.
(your website is located in your house)
= the upload rate is maximum.....

Now, a phone call is arriving. for me, a clever router, will decrease
the upload (from your website) in order to be let you make your phone
call...
And this is precisely, what I cannot find. I need to give permanently
80% of my upload bandwidth to my website... in order to make phone
calls... with a correct audible voice.


You're far better off as Martin suggests and have a router that will
prioritise certian data over others. That way someone can get 100% of
your bandwidth when getting a file, but any VoIP data will have priority
over web (or other) data.

Drayteks come close to being able to do this - the one I have, (an older
2600, flashed with the latest firmware) seems to cope just fine when
I'm pushing many MB of data to remote servers at the same time as making
VoIP calls.

Eg. an SCP of a 1MB file to one of my remote servers:

bigfile 100% 1024KB 93.1KB/s 00:11

and the same when on an active VoIP call:

bigfile 100% 1024KB 78.8KB/s 00:13

and the same again with 2 active VoIP calls:

bigfile 100% 1024KB 68.3KB/s 00:15

Gordon
  #6  
Old January 25th 08, 02:48 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Martin²
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 848
Default QoS Router

Steve,
the Draytek 2600VG I am using has an option to use QoS in either or BOTH
directions, and I ofcourse set it to BOTH for VoIP.
The other VoIP router I am familiar with, Zyxel 2602HWL does (IIRC) the
same.
I would have thought any QoS router would work in both directions.
Which one are you using ?
Regards,
Martin


  #7  
Old January 25th 08, 07:51 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
David Quinton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default QoS Router

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:31:56 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
wrote:
Drayteks come close to being able to do this - the one I have, (an older
2600, flashed with the latest firmware) seems to cope just fine


My 2600 has the Long line firmware - v2.5.6_UK2
and I can't recall ever having seen any QoS settings.

Where are they please?
--
Locate your Mobile phone: http://www.bizorg.co.uk/news.html
Great gifts: http://www.ThisBritain.com/ASOS_popup.html
  #8  
Old January 25th 08, 07:55 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
David Quinton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default QoS Router

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:32:30 +0000, Steve wrote:

Hi,

I am using a VoIP Router, which can manage QoS etc...
The only problem, that it cannot decrease a upload, if I receive a VoIP
phone call.....



I've read somewhere that for VoIP trunk calls (i.e. not internal) QoS
doesn't make a lot of difference unless your Broadband provider also
honours QoS.

But I'd like to be corrected!
--
Locate your Mobile phone: http://www.bizorg.co.uk/news.html
Great gifts: http://www.ThisBritain.com/ASOS_popup.html
  #9  
Old January 25th 08, 09:17 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Gordon Henderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 797
Default QoS Router

In article ,
David Quinton wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:31:56 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
wrote:
Drayteks come close to being able to do this - the one I have, (an older
2600, flashed with the latest firmware) seems to cope just fine


My 2600 has the Long line firmware - v2.5.6_UK2
and I can't recall ever having seen any QoS settings.

Where are they please?


In software version: v2.5.8.3_UK2

Get it from: http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/downloads.html

Or here for the UK2 version:

http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/dow...0v_2583uk2.zip

This assumes a 2600V - please double check your actual model make,
as there is different firmware for the W, G, Plus, etc.

Gordon

  #10  
Old January 25th 08, 09:28 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Gordon Henderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 797
Default QoS Router

In article ,
David Quinton wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:32:30 +0000, Steve wrote:

Hi,

I am using a VoIP Router, which can manage QoS etc...
The only problem, that it cannot decrease a upload, if I receive a VoIP
phone call.....



I've read somewhere that for VoIP trunk calls (i.e. not internal) QoS
doesn't make a lot of difference unless your Broadband provider also
honours QoS.

But I'd like to be corrected!


You're almost right.

You can apply QoS to outgoing packets as the router can queue up a few
outgoing packets before it clocks them over the wire (the slow part), so
it can make sure VoIP packets are delivered in a timely manner while
delaying lower priority data.

However for incoming packets, once they've been clocked over the wire
and arrive in the router, it's too late, as they've already clocked up
"wire time" to transmit the data.

Of-course on the outgoing side, all you're doing is prioritising your own
outgoing traffic. Once it reaches the ISP, and onto the global Internet
you have no more control over it. Some ISPs (and I've worked with one in
Bristol who can do this on leased lines) will prioritise VoIP traffic
through their own network, for you if you ask them, but then it's only
through their own network to their obrders with other ISP/the global
Internet (and in his case, his quote was that the easiest way to manage
contention was to not have any!)

To manage incoming traffic, there's not a lot you can do. There are some
tricks like sending various TCP control packets to sending sites to try
to get hem to slow down, and there are some routers that will do this
(cue Tim ;-) but I'm not convinced it's really viable, as, again, once
they think a remote site is sending too fast, the damage is done and
you've already had packet loss/delays.

In the real world, if you want good VoIP then you have to be prepared to
pay for a good ISP. Using "domestic" ISPs (especially for a business)
is a false economy IMO. I now have a number of customers using an
Internet (ADSL) connection to make outgoing calls on (and some taking
incoming), and in all cases where they are using an inferior ISP they've
had problems. Move them to a good business quality ISP (and we're only
taking £25 a month here) and things have been much better.

Gordon
 




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