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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

voip: Is it actually cheaper ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 17th 08, 03:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Mark Carver
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Posts: 458
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

Now and again I look seriously at the viability of using voip rather than POTS.

I currently use a combination of BT, 18185.co.uk, and Talk Talk (Routed with
an Orchid device).

A number of those calls are free. Out of the chargeable ones, the total cost
over a one month period was 3:78.

I've calculated what the cost would have been (I think) using Sipgate, and
their standard call charges.

http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/tarife.php

It comes out at 6.03. No contest, and I've not included the outlay for the
voip hardware, or included the voip cost of the free calls I currently get via
TalkTalk, these would add another fiver.

The calls are a mixture of 60% UK landline, 30% UK mobile, 10%
0870/0845/international.

Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have I got my sums very
wrong ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #2  
Old February 17th 08, 04:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Soruk
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Posts: 223
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:20:04 +0000, Mark Carver wrote:
Now and again I look seriously at the viability of using voip rather than POTS.

I currently use a combination of BT, 18185.co.uk, and Talk Talk (Routed with
an Orchid device).

A number of those calls are free. Out of the chargeable ones, the total cost
over a one month period was 3:78.

I've calculated what the cost would have been (I think) using Sipgate, and
their standard call charges.

http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/tarife.php

It comes out at 6.03. No contest, and I've not included the outlay for the
voip hardware, or included the voip cost of the free calls I currently get via
TalkTalk, these would add another fiver.

The calls are a mixture of 60% UK landline, 30% UK mobile, 10%
0870/0845/international.

Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have I got my sums very
wrong ?


Re-calculate using VoipCheap, rather than Sipgate.

--
-- Michael "Soruk" McConnell Eridani Star System
MailStripper - http://www.MailStripper.eu/ - SMTP spam filter
Second Number - http://secondnumber.matrixnetwork.co.uk/
  #3  
Old February 17th 08, 05:22 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Ivor Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 579
Default Is it actually cheaper ?

"Mark Carver" wrote in
message
: : Now and again I look seriously at the viability of
: : using voip rather than POTS.

[snip]

: : Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have
: : I got my sums very wrong ?

It's not a question of cost to me, it's versatility. I can have several
numbers ostensibly in different locations (I have one London number, one
Birmingham one, two on my "local" exchange code, one in Germany and one in
the US. People in those places can call me for what is to them a local
call and it doesn't tie up the main BT line (which I use for the fax
machine).

Also the numbers work wherever I am in the world, so if I go on holiday
and take the laptop with me, all my numbers are available anywhere I can
get a broadband connection.

If you want to factor cost into it, think how much 4 "out of area" BT
lines would cost. Also, for the limited number of outgoing calls to POTS
lines I make (most are to other VoIP users) then the simple fact of no
"connection" or "call setup" charge means that a 30 second call to say
"I'm on the way" costs me just over 1p rather than 5 or 6p via BT.


Ivor

  #4  
Old February 17th 08, 05:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Mark Carver
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Posts: 458
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

Soruk wrote:

Re-calculate using VoipCheap, rather than Sipgate.


Ummm, looking better, about 2 quid !

Now, SIP ATAs, do any allow easy and flexible configuration of routing a call
over voip or POTs on a number by number and/or time of day basis ?

What's the technical quality of VoipCheap's calls like ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #5  
Old February 17th 08, 05:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
{{{{{Welcome}}}}}
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Posts: 149
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

Soruk wrote:
On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:20:04 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:
Now and again I look seriously at the viability of using voip rather
than POTS.

I currently use a combination of BT, 18185.co.uk, and Talk Talk
(Routed with an Orchid device).

A number of those calls are free. Out of the chargeable ones, the
total cost over a one month period was 3:78.

I've calculated what the cost would have been (I think) using
Sipgate, and their standard call charges.

http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/tarife.php

It comes out at 6.03. No contest, and I've not included the outlay
for the voip hardware, or included the voip cost of the free calls I
currently get via TalkTalk, these would add another fiver.

The calls are a mixture of 60% UK landline, 30% UK mobile, 10%
0870/0845/international.

Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have I got my
sums very wrong ?


Re-calculate using VoipCheap, rather than Sipgate.


....or one of the other Betamax VoIP brands, such as VoIPDiscount, VoIPStunt
etc.

http://www.backsla.sh/betamax

As I have cable broadband I didn't need a landline, so that was around 10
saving each month, I put calls through VoIPStunt as when I joined I got a
local VoIP-In number from them so didn't change, I paid around 6 in total
for 2.5 years of phone service / calls - once they started to implement the
top-up requirement I used free credit from easyMobile for signing people up,
it was use the credit or lose it as they were dropping out of the UK.

So 2.5 years of phone service for 6 is pretty good (Plus the cost of the
PAP2 ATA).

I do still use VoIP but not as much as before simply because VM offered me
free install of phone line (phone line was previously with BT as cable is a
rip-off on the phone at full rates) free line rental, free evening and
weekend calls package and free caller display for as long as I stay a
customer. So I wasn't going to say no.


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  #6  
Old February 17th 08, 05:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Theo Markettos
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 539
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

Mark Carver wrote:
Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have I got my sums very
wrong ?


1. When it enables you to avoid paying line rental (eg cable broadband, or
2nd/3rd/4th lines)
2. When you want fancy PBX features like auto-divert, voicemail, 'press 1
for this, 2 for that' etc
3. When you can carry calls entirely over IP, not touching the PSTN
4. When you want to make/receive calls irrespective of geographical
location
5. When it's a replacement for a mobile call (see 4)
6. When you want to make use of providers in other countries (eg pretend to
be a local number on the other side of the world)
7. When you want multiple numbers (020...1 for sales, 020...2 for
accounts, or 020...3 for Fred, 020...4 for Bill)
8. When you want integration with computers, like fax-to-email.

A lot of this doesn't apply to many domestic customers who just make and
receive calls on the phoneline they have to have because they have ADSL.
You /can/ win if you want specific features that cost extra on the PSTN
(call divert etc) or aren't possible there (a New York number).

The big advantage PSTN dialthroughs have is a micropayments system, which
isn't the case on a 'top up XX pounds' VOIP system.

Theo
  #7  
Old February 17th 08, 05:55 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:20:04 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:


Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have I got my sums very
wrong ?

A certain person will be along shortly saying you can have many lines
with VOIP for practically nothing but someone in their right mind
would not want numerous lines apart for that point with all the free
calls and free minutes that are around these days voip is no longer
needed at all in order to save money. You get better quality calls
via a fixed line has I found out when I went back to BT .
  #8  
Old February 17th 08, 09:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Is it actually cheaper ?


"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Now and again I look seriously at the viability of using voip rather than
POTS.

I currently use a combination of BT, 18185.co.uk, and Talk Talk (Routed
with an Orchid device).

A number of those calls are free. Out of the chargeable ones, the total
cost over a one month period was 3:78.

I've calculated what the cost would have been (I think) using Sipgate, and
their standard call charges.

http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/tarife.php

It comes out at 6.03. No contest, and I've not included the outlay for
the voip hardware, or included the voip cost of the free calls I currently
get via TalkTalk, these would add another fiver.

The calls are a mixture of 60% UK landline, 30% UK mobile, 10%
0870/0845/international.

Under what circumstances is voip a better deal, or have I got my sums very
wrong ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.


I took the step nearly 3 years ago and have ditched all my PSTN lines now.
It has cost me just over 40 for that time with 2 Draytel accounts using 2
x geographical numbers.
I have numerous clients who have also made the switch and use VoIP for all
outgoing calls and inter branch routing.
Silver tariff on Draytel is as cheap as chips far better deal than sipgate
who are forever have problems when trying to credit an account.

Alastair



  #9  
Old February 17th 08, 09:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Dave Saville
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

I have found that it is really hard to beat the dial through PSTN
numbers - I re did last months bill using one of the VOIP outfits that
give a lot of free calls and the difference was less than a quid. We
call India a lot and I can do that for 3p/min at the moment. However,
and it is a big however, what it does give you is the ability to have
more than one conversation at once. So the wife can be chatting to her
sister whilst I make business calls. Or those times when you dare not
use the phone because you are waiting for an incoming one.

This month I switched from a PSTN + ATA setup to a Siemens S450IP - So
I can handle VOIP and PSTN from the same handsets and it is the
convenience rather than the cost savings that swing it for us.

--
Regards
Dave Saville

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  #10  
Old February 17th 08, 10:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Brian A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,037
Default voip: Is it actually cheaper ?

On 17 Feb 2008 21:54:52 GMT, "Dave Saville"
wrote:

I have found that it is really hard to beat the dial through PSTN
numbers - I re did last months bill using one of the VOIP outfits that
give a lot of free calls and the difference was less than a quid. We
call India a lot and I can do that for 3p/min at the moment. However,
and it is a big however, what it does give you is the ability to have
more than one conversation at once. So the wife can be chatting to her
sister whilst I make business calls. Or those times when you dare not
use the phone because you are waiting for an incoming one.

This month I switched from a PSTN + ATA setup to a Siemens S450IP - So
I can handle VOIP and PSTN from the same handsets and it is the
convenience rather than the cost savings that swing it for us.


I think that you also have to look at other factors in addition to the
potentially lower call charges using VoIP.
If you are paying for services such as 'call waiting', divert service
etc. then you can save by switching to VoIP because these services are
supplied as standard by many VoIP providers.
I don't have a landline - I prefer VoIP even against having a landline
provided free. If I had a VM line I would never use it becasue their
calls are way too expensive and it is necessary to call an 0808 number
to access 18185 etc. That is a mild inconvenience, when compared to a
BT line, where a dialler box can more readily be used. A friend of
mine has a VM line but he doesn't use it, he, like me, prefers to use
VoIP because of the flexibility and integrated services.




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