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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Interleaving - does it increase line speed?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 21st 08, 12:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
WCZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

I can't seem to find a definate answer to this question. At the moment
interleaving is set to auto and I can't see from my router if its on or off.
If I were to force it to be on, would that offer any increase in sync speed?

Clearly I could just try it but it takes 48 hours for any change to take
effect so I thought I'd ask here first.

Cheers.

WCZ.


  #2  
Old February 21st 08, 12:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
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Posts: 1,000
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

WCZ wrote:
I can't seem to find a definate answer to this question. At the moment
interleaving is set to auto and I can't see from my router if its on or off.
If I were to force it to be on, would that offer any increase in sync speed?

Clearly I could just try it but it takes 48 hours for any change to take
effect so I thought I'd ask here first.

The received wisdom is that it increases latency, but is slightly better
at getting more packets trough a noisy environment.

It won't affect sync SPEED..that is a layer below the interleaving.

It PROBABLY slows down throughput a little, but makes it more reliable.

Cheers.

WCZ.


  #3  
Old February 21st 08, 01:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alastair
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Posts: 194
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

"WCZ" wrote in message
...
I can't seem to find a definate answer to this question. At the
moment interleaving is set to auto and I can't see from my
router if its on or off. If I were to force it to be on, would
that offer any increase in sync speed?

Clearly I could just try it but it takes 48 hours for any
change to take effect so I thought I'd ask here first.


Interleaving allows FEC to work better so a noisy
line will sustain a higher sync speed,

It increases latency somewhat.

  #4  
Old February 21st 08, 03:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
James Egan
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Posts: 152
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?


On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:52:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

It won't affect sync SPEED..that is a layer below the interleaving.


BT reckon interleaving reduces the maximum achievable line rate on max
from 8128k to 7616k


Jim.

  #5  
Old February 21st 08, 07:30 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

In message , WCZ
writes
I can't seem to find a definate answer to this question. At the moment
interleaving is set to auto and I can't see from my router if its on or off.
If I were to force it to be on, would that offer any increase in sync speed?

Clearly I could just try it but it takes 48 hours for any change to take
effect so I thought I'd ask here first.

Cheers.

WCZ.


As I understand (and someone who actually knows will be along shortly I
am sure)

Interleaving makes no difference to the sync speed per-se.

It trades off an increase in the overheads in the protocol in order to
reduce packet loss and improve link reliability. However that
improvement can stabilise the link at slightly higher sync speeds, and
stop the exchange from negotiating a lower speed because of dropouts. In
which case it can cause an increase in sync speeds.

Whether it increases or decreases download speeds depends on the level
of packet loss your line experiences without it. If it is significant,
then having interleaving on will (may) reduce the level of
retransmission caused by packet errors and consequently INCREASE
effective download speeds. OTOH if you get no real packet loss with it
off the protocol overheads will be lower, and download speeds may be
higher because a higher proportion of the link traffic is available.

I suspect you will find it hard to tell the difference in terms of
download speed unless your link is particularly good (off is faster), or
particularly bad (on is faster). The variations in speed you get from
the test site is probably going to swamp any difference caused by
interleaving.

I understand however it has a significant impact on round trip "ping"
times, as a consequence I believe gamers tend to turn it off and live
with the increased packet loss and link instability.

Do let us know the results of your experiments.

--
Invalid
  #6  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:29 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:05:04 +0000, James Egan
wrote:


On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:52:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

It won't affect sync SPEED..that is a layer below the interleaving.


BT reckon interleaving reduces the maximum achievable line rate on max
from 8128k to 7616k


I thought the reduction from the theoretical 8M max was due to the
ATM (etc) overhead.

BICBW
  #7  
Old February 22nd 08, 09:38 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Steve B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?


"Invalid" wrote in message
...
In message , WCZ
writes
I can't seem to find a definate answer to this question. At the moment
interleaving is set to auto and I can't see from my router if its on or
off.
If I were to force it to be on, would that offer any increase in sync
speed?

Clearly I could just try it but it takes 48 hours for any change to take
effect so I thought I'd ask here first.

Cheers.

WCZ.


As I understand (and someone who actually knows will be along shortly I am
sure)

Interleaving makes no difference to the sync speed per-se.

It trades off an increase in the overheads in the protocol in order to
reduce packet loss and improve link reliability. However that improvement
can stabilise the link at slightly higher sync speeds, and stop the
exchange from negotiating a lower speed because of dropouts. In which case
it can cause an increase in sync speeds.

Whether it increases or decreases download speeds depends on the level of
packet loss your line experiences without it. If it is significant, then
having interleaving on will (may) reduce the level of retransmission
caused by packet errors and consequently INCREASE effective download
speeds. OTOH if you get no real packet loss with it off the protocol
overheads will be lower, and download speeds may be higher because a
higher proportion of the link traffic is available.

I suspect you will find it hard to tell the difference in terms of
download speed unless your link is particularly good (off is faster), or
particularly bad (on is faster). The variations in speed you get from the
test site is probably going to swamp any difference caused by
interleaving.

I understand however it has a significant impact on round trip "ping"
times, as a consequence I believe gamers tend to turn it off and live with
the increased packet loss and link instability.

Do let us know the results of your experiments.

--
Invalid


I believe that the actual latency with interleaving on depends on the type
of equipment used in the exchange. I get 21ms pinging my ISP with it on so
have never bothered to get it switched off.


  #8  
Old February 22nd 08, 09:39 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:29:48 +0000, Steve wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:05:04 +0000, James Egan wrote:


BT reckon interleaving reduces the maximum achievable line rate on max
from 8128k to 7616k


I thought the reduction from the theoretical 8M max was due to the ATM
(etc) overhead.


He's talking about the line rate, not the IP throughput.

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
08:38:18 up 13 days, 11:41, 2 users, load average: 1.15, 1.13, 1.05
Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data
  #9  
Old February 23rd 08, 10:07 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alex Fraser
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Posts: 553
Default Interleaving - does it increase line speed?

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
[snip]
I believe that the actual latency with interleaving on depends on the
type of equipment used in the exchange. I get 21ms pinging my ISP with
it on so have never bothered to get it switched off.


The latency introduced fundamentally depends on the interleave depth, which
could be fixed by the exchange equipment or (more likely I think) its
configuration, or chosen based on assessed line conditions.

FWIW, I also got the same RTT using interleave path, which suggests the same
interleave depth was used on this line as yours. As a comparison, on the
same line using fast path, I get 7-8ms.

Alex


 




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