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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 23rd 08, 10:12 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?

I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was looking
through the options. T-mobile are advertising their Web'n'Walk service
at 15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a couple of layers of
small print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that service
from using it in a way that could result in competition to their main
service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if this could be
challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to get away with
banning internet phone calls through their broadband service, then I can
see VoIP being increasingly threatened.


  #2  
Old March 23rd 08, 11:04 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was looking
through the options. T-mobile are advertising their Web'n'Walk service at
15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a couple of layers of small
print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that service
from using it in a way that could result in competition to their main
service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if this could be
challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to get away with
banning internet phone calls through their broadband service, then I can
see VoIP being increasingly threatened.

Interesting tack and one that I others have pondered over many a time.
I can understand it with the primarily mobile phone wallahs blocking VoIP
ports but fdo wonder when others with a vested interest in telecomms start
rising en masse.
Take the O2 service. I was led to believe initially that VoIP ports were
blocked on that whilst their sister service Bethere did not.
Is that still the case does anyone know?

When I gave up my Telewest landlines the retentions dept assured me thta
VoIP wouldn't work. Wasn't reliable etc...
Didn't really like to tell them that I was cancelling from a SIP phone, lol.
I was waiting for all manner of problems on UDP ports tpo follow.
As it happens the VoIP uptime is now greater than that of the landline which
did fallover every now and then.

If there was a considerable mass exodus to VoIP then I could see ISPs
pointing to AUP's in a bid to wriggle out and get it cothered.

Just my ponderings for what they are worth.

Regards

Alastair


  #3  
Old March 23rd 08, 11:45 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Gordon Henderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 797
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?

In article ,
Harry Stottle wrote:
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was looking
through the options. T-mobile are advertising their Web'n'Walk service
at 15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a couple of layers of
small print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that service
from using it in a way that could result in competition to their main
service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if this could be
challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to get away with
banning internet phone calls through their broadband service, then I can
see VoIP being increasingly threatened.


It will always be "threatened" as long as it's a competing technology
and something that may lessen the operators revenue. It goes as far as
being illegal in some locations - eg. as far as I'm aware in South Africa
where the govt. is the majority shareholder in the telephone company,
and I've had issues in smaller (african) countries with the ISP blocking
VoIP ports.

Three allows Skype calls, but not Skype-out calls as far as I'm aware -
obviously Skype-out is a revenue loser for them. There were early
reports of Vodaphone (and maybe orange?) "crippling" phones with VoIP
capabiltiy too - removing the VoIP parts. However my E90 does SIP very
well over Wi-Fi, and mybe over 3G too, but I've yet to try it.

I do have to say though, that I'd rather use a mobile phone for GSM/3G
calls rather than VoIP calls - it's probably cheaper (contract depending)
and more reliable at present, but who knows in the future...

Gordon
  #4  
Old March 23rd 08, 12:00 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Harry Stottle wrote:
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was looking
through the options. T-mobile are advertising their Web'n'Walk service
at 15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a couple of layers of
small print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that service
from using it in a way that could result in competition to their main
service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if this could be
challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to get away with
banning internet phone calls through their broadband service, then I can
see VoIP being increasingly threatened.


It will always be "threatened" as long as it's a competing technology
and something that may lessen the operators revenue. It goes as far as
being illegal in some locations - eg. as far as I'm aware in South Africa
where the govt. is the majority shareholder in the telephone company,
and I've had issues in smaller (african) countries with the ISP blocking
VoIP ports.

Three allows Skype calls, but not Skype-out calls as far as I'm aware -
obviously Skype-out is a revenue loser for them. There were early
reports of Vodaphone (and maybe orange?) "crippling" phones with VoIP
capabiltiy too - removing the VoIP parts. However my E90 does SIP very
well over Wi-Fi, and mybe over 3G too, but I've yet to try it.

I do have to say though, that I'd rather use a mobile phone for GSM/3G
calls rather than VoIP calls - it's probably cheaper (contract depending)
and more reliable at present, but who knows in the future...

Gordon

As regards the smaller African countries there is a good reason for that.
The pipe cost is prohibitive and no one really wants to open the floodgates
and make it cheaper for various reasons.


  #5  
Old March 23rd 08, 04:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
RH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was looking
through the options. T-mobile are advertising their Web'n'Walk service at
15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a couple of layers of small
print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that service
from using it in a way that could result in competition to their main
service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if this could be
challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to get away with
banning internet phone calls through their broadband service, then I can
see VoIP being increasingly threatened.


This is fair enough as far as I can see, as long as they tell you in advance
can not see an issue with this. They offer a service
and is up to user to agree if they want it or not. Why would any company
offer a service which would cut their core business


  #6  
Old March 23rd 08, 04:49 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


"RH" wrote in message
...

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was
looking through the options. T-mobile are advertising their Web'n'Walk
service at 15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a couple of
layers of small print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that
service from using it in a way that could result in competition to
their main service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if
this could be challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to
get away with banning internet phone calls through their broadband
service, then I can see VoIP being increasingly threatened.


This is fair enough as far as I can see, as long as they tell you in
advance can not see an issue with this. They offer a service
and is up to user to agree if they want it or not. Why would any
company offer a service which would cut their core business

So what would happen if BT and Virgin Media decided they were not going
to allow VoIP over their services?
VoIP would be severely limited, making it unavailable to the masses just
to protect the profits of the big companies.


  #7  
Old March 23rd 08, 06:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...

"RH" wrote in message
...

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was
looking through the options. T-mobile are advertising their
Web'n'Walk service at 15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through a
couple of layers of small print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone company
providing a different type of service, but banning users of that
service from using it in a way that could result in competition to
their main service. How do others see this, and does anyone know if
this could be challenged legally, because if T-Mobile are allowed to
get away with banning internet phone calls through their broadband
service, then I can see VoIP being increasingly threatened.


This is fair enough as far as I can see, as long as they tell you in
advance can not see an issue with this. They offer a service
and is up to user to agree if they want it or not. Why would any
company offer a service which would cut their core business

So what would happen if BT and Virgin Media decided they were not
going to allow VoIP over their services?
VoIP would be severely limited, making it unavailable to the masses
just to protect the profits of the big companies.



Since both BT and VM supply business users with line phones using VOIP,
the words kettle and black come to mind.

On the other hand, unless they make a fundamental change to their
contracts - and to which you as the user would have to agree - I suspect
they may be on a sticky wicket legally if they tried port blocking.
Unfair Contract Terms might come into it, and even the Competition
Commission may have something to say - and that ignores the useless
OffCom (deliberate misspelling) within who's bailiwick it would fall.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #8  
Old March 23rd 08, 07:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


"Woody" wrote in message
...
"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...

"RH" wrote in message
...

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...
I was considering taking out a mobile broadband service and was
looking through the options. T-mobile are advertising their
Web'n'Walk service at 15.00/month for 3 GB, but when I dug through
a couple of layers of small print, I found the following
Quote We do not permit use of this service for internet phone
calls/Quote
Link http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/
This seems like a restrictive practice to me, a mobile phone
company providing a different type of service, but banning users of
that service from using it in a way that could result in
competition to their main service. How do others see this, and does
anyone know if this could be challenged legally, because if
T-Mobile are allowed to get away with banning internet phone calls
through their broadband service, then I can see VoIP being
increasingly threatened.

This is fair enough as far as I can see, as long as they tell you in
advance can not see an issue with this. They offer a service
and is up to user to agree if they want it or not. Why would any
company offer a service which would cut their core business

So what would happen if BT and Virgin Media decided they were not
going to allow VoIP over their services?
VoIP would be severely limited, making it unavailable to the masses
just to protect the profits of the big companies.


Since both BT and VM supply business users with line phones using
VOIP, the words kettle and black come to mind.

On the other hand, unless they make a fundamental change to their
contracts - and to which you as the user would have to agree - I
suspect they may be on a sticky wicket legally if they tried port
blocking. Unfair Contract Terms might come into it, and even the
Competition Commission may have something to say - and that ignores
the useless OffCom (deliberate misspelling) within who's bailiwick it
would fall.

Shortly after posting the original post here this morning, I sent an
email with similar content to my local MP knowing of his interest in
technology matters. I also know that he is usually very busy with
correspondence, so I put in the email that I didn't need a reply, and
that I was just informing him of the situation. Exactly 25 minutes
later, I received a reply from him, he agreed with my concerns, and is
passing the details on to his ministerial colleagues at BERR, (Business,
Enterprise & Regulatory Reform), to check if they are aware of it.
Not a bad service from an MP, especially on Easter Sunday, but he is one
of the better ones.


  #9  
Old March 23rd 08, 09:14 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
mattpark mattpark is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Durham, United Kingdom
Posts: 29
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


IIRC, T-mobile *do* allow you to make VoIP calls over their data
connections.

The catch is that you must be subscribed to an "advanced" web and walk
package that doesn't block required ports, and has modified terms and
conditions.

Be prepared to pay an extra 15 on top of your usual web and walk
price.

Matt


--
mattpark
------------------------------------------------------------------------
mattpark's Profile: http://www.ukvoiptalk.com/member.php?userid=3
View this thread: http://www.ukvoiptalk.com/showthread.php?t=3422

External post from http://www.ukvoiptalk.com

  #10  
Old March 23rd 08, 11:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Harry Stottle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Restrictive practices in mobile broadband services?


"mattpark" wrote in message
...

IIRC, T-mobile *do* allow you to make VoIP calls over their data
connections.

The catch is that you must be subscribed to an "advanced" web and walk
package that doesn't block required ports, and has modified terms and
conditions.

Be prepared to pay an extra 15 on top of your usual web and walk
price.

This is like a power company providing an electricity supply, and then
branching out into selling electrical appliances, then banning customers
from using their own appliances with the supplied electricity unless
they pay extra for it, or unless they buy their appliances from the
electricity supply company. I know it is not exactly, but it is as close
as I can get at this time of night to try and compare it with other
situations that might arise, where companies could try to use their
strength to impose unfair restrictions on customers.


 




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