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uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) (uk.comp.home-networking) Discussion of all aspects of computer networking in the home, regardless of the platforms, software, topologies and protocols used. Examples of topics include recommendations for hardware or suppliers (e.g. NICs and cabling), protocols, servers, and specific network software. Advertising is not allowed.

Ping and Tracert



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 13th 08, 04:35 PM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Geoff Lane
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Posts: 236
Default Ping and Tracert

I was under the impression that Ping and Tracert were similar utilities
with tracert giving a wee bit more information about the connection.

Why is it then, if I ping bbc.co.uk I get response times of around 30ms
whereas if I tracert the same address it appears to take much longer.

Geoff Lane
  #2  
Old April 14th 08, 02:44 AM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Rob Morley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,379
Default Ping and Tracert

In article , Geoff Lane
says...
I was under the impression that Ping and Tracert were similar utilities
with tracert giving a wee bit more information about the connection.

Why is it then, if I ping bbc.co.uk I get response times of around 30ms
whereas if I tracert the same address it appears to take much longer.

Ping sends a ICMP packet to the server, which sends an acknowledgement
back (if it's running the ping service). Traceroute sends an ICMP
packet which has expired, which causes an error at the first router it
reaches - the router returns an error message which includes the
router's details that traceroute then displays. It then sends another
packet that hasn't quite expired, which will pass through the first
router but be caught by the next, and so on down the line. Routers are
optimised to pass packets very quickly, but error messages are a lower
priority so it will take longer for the router to return an error
message than it will for it to forward a good packet. The final hop of
the traceroute to the destination address also prompts an error response
(port unreachable), while ping servers do nothing but reply to ping
requests all day, so they're pretty good at what they do. :-)

Why do you keep crossposting to uk.comp.home-networking but quietly
setting followup to comp.os.linux.networking? I don't read that group.
  #3  
Old April 14th 08, 09:15 PM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Moe Trin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Ping and Tracert

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.networking, in
article , Rob Morley wrote:

Geoff Lane says...


I was under the impression that Ping and Tracert were similar utilities
with tracert giving a wee bit more information about the connection.


Ping sends a ICMP packet to the server, which sends an acknowledgement
back (if it's running the ping service). Traceroute sends an ICMP
packet which has expired, which causes an error at the first router it
reaches - the router returns an error message which includes the
router's details that traceroute then displays.


Minor quibble - Tracert is the windoze version of traceroute, and it
does use ICMP Echo (Type 8) as you describe. 'traceroute' is the
original program that microsoft sorta copied and the original version
used UDP packets to ports not likely to be in use (above 33434). It
was later modified to be able to _also_ use ICMP Type 8, although not
all versions now available have this selection.

The final hop of the traceroute to the destination address also prompts
an error response (port unreachable),


But not for the versions using ICMP, as that protocol has no port numbers.
Assuming the final destination is replying to pings (many people block or
disable such responses due to abuse), the response to an ICMP style trace
would be an echo reply (ICMP Type 0) rather than the Time Exceeded error
message (ICMP Type 11 Code 0) sent by intermediate routers.

while ping servers do nothing but reply to ping requests all day, so
they're pretty good at what they do. :-)


Assuming the ping is not disabled or blocked.

Why do you keep crossposting to uk.comp.home-networking but quietly
setting followup to comp.os.linux.networking? I don't read that group.


Good question. Which group is it that you don't read?

Old guy
  #4  
Old April 19th 08, 08:23 PM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Ping and Tracert

Rob Morley wrote:

Ping sends a ICMP packet to the server, which sends an acknowledgement
back (if it's running the ping service). Traceroute sends an ICMP
packet which has expired, which causes an error at the first router it
reaches -


Thanks Rob for very informative reply.

Why do you keep crossposting to uk.comp.home-networking but quietly
setting followup to comp.os.linux.networking? I don't read that group.


I thought that was the correct way to do it if sending to more than one
group, does not the Followup-To: go to just one group. I was criticised
some time back (Not in this group) for sending duplicate messages to two
different groups.

Geoff Lane


  #5  
Old April 20th 08, 10:23 AM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Rob Morley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,379
Default Ping and Tracert

In article , Geoff Lane
says...
Rob Morley wrote:

Ping sends a ICMP packet to the server, which sends an acknowledgement
back (if it's running the ping service). Traceroute sends an ICMP
packet which has expired, which causes an error at the first router it
reaches -


Thanks Rob for very informative reply.


Apparently it was incorrect in some details, but you get the idea ...

Why do you keep crossposting to uk.comp.home-networking but quietly
setting followup to comp.os.linux.networking? I don't read that group.


I thought that was the correct way to do it if sending to more than one
group, does not the Followup-To: go to just one group.


It does - so if you reply to my followup I'll never see it if I'm not
reading the group that you set followup to (unless you also send it to
my email address - that will work for me, but many people use an invalid
address, or one that never gets checked). Also it's customary to state
in the post that you have set followup to a particular group.

I was criticised
some time back (Not in this group) for sending duplicate messages to two
different groups.

I think duplicate messages are generally deprecated as the resulting
discussion is fragmented or duplicated. Crossposting to two or three
groups is often OK, depending on your choice of groups - obviously they
have to be appropriate to the subject, and the culture of some groups is
anti-crossposting. uk.comp.home-networking is pretty low-traffic and
on-topic lately, so crossposting here shouldn't cause any problems. I
don't know about comp.os.linux.networking - those Linux people can be a
bit strange at times. ;-)
  #6  
Old April 20th 08, 08:41 PM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Ping and Tracert

Rob Morley wrote:

Also it's customary to state
in the post that you have set followup to a particular group.


I normally do but must have missed on this occasion.

uk.comp.home-networking is pretty low-traffic and
on-topic lately, so crossposting here shouldn't cause any problems. I
don't know about comp.os.linux.networking - those Linux people can be a
bit strange at times. ;-)


Fortunately many are very knowledgeable and helpful and I do run Ubuntu
Linux as well as XP, hence the post to a Linux group.

Geoff Lane

  #8  
Old April 22nd 08, 05:27 PM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Ping and Tracert

Rob Morley wrote:

I'm too lazy to be able to claim that I'm running Linux ATM, although I
have a couple of distros installed and I started using it over 10 years
ago. I do intend to migrate from Windoze, but I've been saying that for
years and it hasn't happened yet ... maybe this year ...


I can strongly recommend looking at www.ubuntu.com

This distro is gaining in popularity, is based on Debian.

My wifi worked with no effort on my part apart from the security code.

My Multi Function printer/scanner/card reader is connected to my Ubuntu
machine and the printer and scanner is all available to my network.

Geoff Lane


  #9  
Old April 22nd 08, 08:20 PM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Bernard Peek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 202
Default Ping and Tracert

Geoff Lane wrote:
Rob Morley wrote:

I'm too lazy to be able to claim that I'm running Linux ATM, although
I have a couple of distros installed and I started using it over 10
years ago. I do intend to migrate from Windoze, but I've been saying
that for years and it hasn't happened yet ... maybe this year ...


I can strongly recommend looking at www.ubuntu.com

This distro is gaining in popularity, is based on Debian.

My wifi worked with no effort on my part apart from the security code.

My Multi Function printer/scanner/card reader is connected to my Ubuntu
machine and the printer and scanner is all available to my network.



It's worth noting that there is a new release of Ubuntu due in a few days.



--

  #10  
Old April 23rd 08, 02:34 AM posted to comp.os.linux.networking,uk.comp.home-networking
Rob Morley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,379
Default Ping and Tracert

In article , Geoff Lane
says...
Rob Morley wrote:

I'm too lazy to be able to claim that I'm running Linux ATM, although I
have a couple of distros installed and I started using it over 10 years
ago. I do intend to migrate from Windoze, but I've been saying that for
years and it hasn't happened yet ... maybe this year ...


I can strongly recommend looking at
www.ubuntu.com

I already have Xubuntu installed, along with Slackware (can't remember
which versions, it's a while since I played with them). I spent some
time trying to run my favourite mail and news apps on Wine, then trying
to find Linux equivalents that I liked as much, but it's just too easy
to go back to the familiarity of Windoze despite my good intentions.
I'll keep trying. :-)
 




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