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uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) (uk.comp.home-networking) Discussion of all aspects of computer networking in the home, regardless of the platforms, software, topologies and protocols used. Examples of topics include recommendations for hardware or suppliers (e.g. NICs and cabling), protocols, servers, and specific network software. Advertising is not allowed.

shielded tp ethernet cable



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 7th 08, 08:27 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
mark
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Posts: 4
Default shielded tp ethernet cable


Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?

--
Mark Roberts
  #2  
Old October 8th 08, 01:10 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Andrew Gabriel
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Posts: 227
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In article ,
mark writes:

Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?


It is contrary to the [mains] wiring regs.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #3  
Old October 8th 08, 07:10 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Ian
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Posts: 25
Default shielded tp ethernet cable


"mark" wrote in message
...

Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?

--
Mark Roberts


Yes it can and if it is in your own house who is to know.


  #4  
Old October 8th 08, 09:00 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
stephen
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Posts: 381
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:27:40 +0100, mark
wrote:


Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?


yes - it can.

is it a good idea - definitely not, since the insulation isnt good
enough.

is it legal - probably not, since you are not following the IEEE UK
code of practice for electricity wiring for segregation of low and
mains voltage cabling.
--
Regards

- replace xyz with ntl
  #5  
Old October 8th 08, 09:19 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Bernard Peek
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Posts: 202
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In message , Stephen
writes
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:27:40 +0100, mark
wrote:


Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?


yes - it can.

is it a good idea - definitely not, since the insulation isnt good
enough.

is it legal - probably not, since you are not following the IEEE UK
code of practice for electricity wiring for segregation of low and
mains voltage cabling.


It's beginning to look as if every homeowner in the UK is going to need
to have their electricity and heating systems certified before they are
allowed to sell. It may be possible to run low voltage and mains cable
in parallel, but whether it is advisable is a very different issue.


--
Bernard Peek
London, UK. DBA, Manager, Trainer & Author.

  #6  
Old October 8th 08, 11:15 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
mark
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Posts: 4
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In message , Bernard Peek
writes
In message , Stephen
writes
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:27:40 +0100, mark
wrote:


Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?


yes - it can.

is it a good idea - definitely not, since the insulation isnt good
enough.

is it legal - probably not, since you are not following the IEEE UK
code of practice for electricity wiring for segregation of low and
mains voltage cabling.


It's beginning to look as if every homeowner in the UK is going to need
to have their electricity and heating systems certified before they are
allowed to sell. It may be possible to run low voltage and mains cable
in parallel, but whether it is advisable is a very different issue.


I was initially concerned about the interference to data transfer but I
see the problem now with the electric itself.

--
Mark Roberts
  #7  
Old October 9th 08, 12:55 AM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
John Weston
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Posts: 108
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In article ,
says...
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:27:40 +0100, mark
wrote:


Can shielded cable be run in the same duct as domestic mains cables?


yes - it can.

is it a good idea - definitely not, since the insulation isnt good
enough.

is it legal - probably not, since you are not following the IEEE UK
code of practice for electricity wiring for segregation of low and
mains voltage cabling.

Nothing to do with the IEEE - that USA. We have the IEE over here :-)

AFAICS the new 2008 17th edition of the IEE Wiring regulations requires
a RCD even on data cables (!!!) unless there is physical separation of
the data and mains cabling. Because of this, I would never run them
together without obvious physical and electrical separation (e.g. no
touching cables and not in the same duct unless there is a grounded
divider in the duct). This way, the data cables do not form part of the
mains electical installation so would not be subject to the requirements
for mains installation certification after installation.

That said, mains cable is an excellent aerial picking up and re-
radiating all sorts of HF signals in the data bands, not to mention
switching transients with components way above HF. This would be coupled
into the data cable shield, which is only grounded at the end. Hence any
induced HF current runs all the way along the shield to the ground
point. Since the shield is parallel to, and close to, the data wires,
who knows what interference they will see? Another argument for
separating mains and data IMO.
--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice
  #8  
Old October 9th 08, 02:33 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Andrew Gabriel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 227
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In article ,
mark writes:
I was initially concerned about the interference to data transfer but I
see the problem now with the electric itself.


The data transfer will work fine (and possibly even
better with unshielded cable).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #9  
Old October 9th 08, 02:54 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Andrew Gabriel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 227
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In article ,
John Weston writes:
Nothing to do with the IEEE - that USA. We have the IEE over here :-)

AFAICS the new 2008 17th edition of the IEE Wiring regulations requires
a RCD even on data cables (!!!) unless there is physical separation of
the data and mains cabling. Because of this, I would never run them
together without obvious physical and electrical separation (e.g. no
touching cables and not in the same duct unless there is a grounded
divider in the duct). This way, the data cables do not form part of the
mains electical installation so would not be subject to the requirements
for mains installation certification after installation.


IEE regs cover all premises wiring, including data, phone, doorbell,
etc. not just mains. There are exceptions where other regs take over,
such as "suppliers works" (supply wiring up to and including your
meter), wiring in a lift shaft, and lightning conductors.

Having said that, the IEE regs coverage of extra low voltage data is
really rather incompetent. Insulation barrier is fine, but separatation
to prevent interference is now silly -- just about every signalling
protocol in the last 40 years has been design to run alongside mains
wiring, in recognition of what happens in real life.

That said, mains cable is an excellent aerial picking up and re-
radiating all sorts of HF signals in the data bands, not to mention
switching transients with components way above HF. This would be coupled
into the data cable shield, which is only grounded at the end. Hence any
induced HF current runs all the way along the shield to the ground
point. Since the shield is parallel to, and close to, the data wires,
who knows what interference they will see? Another argument for
separating mains and data IMO.


That's also the argument for not using shielded cable in this case.
(The shield is more likely to induce noise than it is to protect
from it, and anyway, very few people get the grounding connections
for it right.) If you might want to use the twisted pair for something
else one day, then it might be worth using screened in case that
needs it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #10  
Old October 9th 08, 07:22 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default shielded tp ethernet cable

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
mark writes:
I was initially concerned about the interference to data transfer but I
see the problem now with the electric itself.


The data transfer will work fine (and possibly even
better with unshielded cable).

Really?
Will the EMF from the mains cables not degrade the data signal?
What is shielded cable for then?
--
Mark Roberts
 




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