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uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) (uk.comp.home-networking) Discussion of all aspects of computer networking in the home, regardless of the platforms, software, topologies and protocols used. Examples of topics include recommendations for hardware or suppliers (e.g. NICs and cabling), protocols, servers, and specific network software. Advertising is not allowed.

Blueyonder/Virgin router setup



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 12th 08, 02:34 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Daniel James
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

Not sure whether to post this here or uk.telecom.broadband ... cable
isn't technically telecoms, is it?

My sister-in-law has asked me to help set up a wireless router on her
Virgin (formerly Blueyonder) cable broadband connection (i.e. do it for
her). She has bought (with a little guidance, OK a lot of guidance) an
inexpensive Linksys cable router -- a WRT54GR -- that seems to be able
to do what's needed.

I have no familiarity at all with Blueyonder and their setup -- and
it's a while since I helped another friend do much the same with an NTL
connection -- so I want to check the setup ... I'm not sure whether
Virgin actually support the use of a router on a domestic line, so I'm
reluctant to ask them how to proceed.

SIL currently has a Motorola cable modem connected to the PC via USB,
and working fine. Both the modem and the PC have unused ethernet ports
so connection shouldn't be a problem (should it?). Not sure whether I
need a normal patch cable for that or a crossover?

I read that it may be necessary to get the router to use the same MAC
address as the PC ... the Linksys router setup web page has a button
that will clone the PC's ethernet MAC address automagically ... but
don't I actually want it to clone the MAC address used by the USB
connection? Is this even necessary any more?

The WAN setup in the router has options for DCHP, Fixed IP, PPPoE, and
maybe one other (I don't have the kit with me ATM) ... Depending on
which I select I am asked for more information. Am I right in thinking
that PPPoE is the right choice here? If I select that I am then asked
for an ID and password (which SIL has lost, so we may have to call
Virgin support after all).

Thanks for any help.

Cheers,
Daniel.


  #2  
Old October 12th 08, 03:03 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Rob Morley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,379
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:34:24 +0100
Daniel James wrote:

I'm not sure
whether Virgin actually support the use of a router on a domestic
line


They don't /support/ it just as they don't support Linux - i.e. if you
have problems with your setup the first thing they'll do is tell you to
plug a Windows PC into the modem, but they don't care if you use
one.

SIL currently has a Motorola cable modem connected to the PC via USB,
and working fine. Both the modem and the PC have unused ethernet
ports so connection shouldn't be a problem (should it?). Not sure
whether I need a normal patch cable for that or a crossover?


Either should work - ethernet interfaces these days can generally
figure it out for themselves.

I read that it may be necessary to get the router to use the same MAC
address as the PC ... the Linksys router setup web page has a button
that will clone the PC's ethernet MAC address automagically ... but
don't I actually want it to clone the MAC address used by the USB
connection? Is this even necessary any more?


No - just resetting the modem before powering up the router should be
enough.

The WAN setup in the router has options for DCHP, Fixed IP, PPPoE,
and maybe one other (I don't have the kit with me ATM) ... Depending
on which I select I am asked for more information. Am I right in
thinking that PPPoE is the right choice here? If I select that I am
then asked for an ID and password (which SIL has lost, so we may have
to call Virgin support after all).

My Virgin connection uses regular ethernet with DHCP, I don't think
Blueyonder is any different.

  #3  
Old October 12th 08, 04:51 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Geo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:34:24 +0100, Daniel James
wrote:

I have no familiarity at all with Blueyonder and their setup -- and
it's a while since I helped another friend do much the same with an NTL
connection -- so I want to check the setup ... I'm not sure whether
Virgin actually support the use of a router on a domestic line, so I'm
reluctant to ask them how to proceed.

You do not need to talk to them at all.

SIL currently has a Motorola cable modem connected to the PC via USB,
and working fine. Both the modem and the PC have unused ethernet ports
so connection shouldn't be a problem (should it?).

You should perhaps get the PC connected directly to the modem as an initial step
to check and set up the ethernet.
Then connect the router between the two and ensurec you can get an IP from it
and reach the set-up page.
Presumably the wireless portion is for a laptop? Anyway - different can of
worms...
http://www.virginmedia.com/help/wireless/

I read that it may be necessary to get the router to use the same MAC
address as the PC

No longer necessary with BY/Virgin.


Geo
  #4  
Old October 12th 08, 09:17 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Daniel James
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

In article , Geo wrote:
I'm not sure whether Virgin actually support the use of a router on
a domestic line, so I'm reluctant to ask them how to proceed.

You do not need to talk to them at all.


I would hope not, no.

You should perhaps get the PC connected directly to the modem as an
initial step to check and set up the ethernet.


Sensible.

Then connect the router between the two and ensurec you can get an
IP from it and reach the set-up page.


I've tested the connection between the PC and the router. I can get the
setup pages OK. I'm just not sure what the expected settings are for the
Blueyonder system and the Motorola modem.

Presumably the wireless portion is for a laptop?


Laptop, yes, and also a PC my nephews use which will have a USB WiFi
adaptor (it's old enough not to have an ethernet port, and SIL wants to be
able to remove the USB NIC as a means of parental control).

I read that it may be necessary to get the router to use the same MAC
address as the PC

No longer necessary with BY/Virgin.


I wasn't sure. Thanks.

Cheers,
Daniel.






  #5  
Old October 12th 08, 09:18 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Daniel James
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

In article news:[email protected], Rob Morley wrote:
... they don't care if you use one.


That's good. ... but I'm not going to create waves by telling them!

... a normal patch cable for that or a crossover?

Either should work - ethernet interfaces these days can generally
figure it out for themselves.


The kit is all fairly new.

My Virgin connection uses regular ethernet with DHCP, I don't think
Blueyonder is any different.


I'm not sure what the difference between the setting Linksys call
"DHCP" and the setting they call "PPPoE" is -- TBH I'm surprised that
they're given as alternatives.

They're different things: PPPoE is the packet protocol used to deliver
data and DHCP is the higher-level protocol used by the client to get an
IP address from the server ... I don't understand how they can be
alternatives?

Better download the full manual ...

Cheers,
Daniel.


  #6  
Old October 13th 08, 05:57 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Rob Morley
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Posts: 1,379
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:18:00 +0100
Daniel James wrote:

I'm not sure what the difference between the setting Linksys call
"DHCP" and the setting they call "PPPoE" is -- TBH I'm surprised that
they're given as alternatives.

They're different things: PPPoE is the packet protocol used to
deliver data and DHCP is the higher-level protocol used by the client
to get an IP address from the server ... I don't understand how they
can be alternatives?

The DHCP and fixed address options refer to simple ethernet
connections -the only authentication required is the MAC address of
your modem. PPPoE adds an ethernet wrapper to PPP packets (the same
protocol used in a POTS dialup connection, including the user/pass
session authentication). AFAIK it's usually only used with DSL services.

  #7  
Old October 14th 08, 05:02 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Daniel James
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

In article news:[email protected], Rob Morley wrote:
PPPoE adds an ethernet wrapper to PPP packets (the same
protocol used in a POTS dialup connection, including the user/pass
session authentication). AFAIK it's usually only used with DSL services.


It's not obvious whether domestic broadband as supplied by Virgin Media
(formerly, in this case, Telewest/Blueyonder) is a "Digital Subscriber
Line" or not. It's neither ADSL nor SDSL, but ...

The uncertainty is made all the greater by the fact that a PPPoE
connection will (almost?) certainly ALSO be either a "DHCP" connection or
a "Fixed IP" connection (the IP address to be used must either be supplied
by the server or be a fixed address programmed into the host or the
router).

However, in the case of a (former Blueyonder) Virgin line the correct
option is "DHCP" (and not PPPoE at all).

Cheers,
Daniel.


  #8  
Old October 14th 08, 05:02 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Daniel James
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

In article , Geo wrote:
You should perhaps get the PC connected directly to the modem as an
initial step to check and set up the ethernet.


I thought I had already done that ... but I did so again. There was no
connection between the PC and the modem.

Switching to a different CAT-5 cable made all the difference (though the
cable itself does not now seem to be faulty ... it may have been dirty or
not pushed fully into its socket at one end).

For the record, this is what worked:

Router connection setting: DHCP
Optional host/domain settings: blank
Cloning PC Mac address was not required.

Note that when detaching the cable modem from the USB connection to the PC
and connecting it by ethernet to the PC or the router it was necessary to
power cycle the modem. Putting it into standby using the button on the
modem is NOT sufficient.
--
Cheers,
Daniel.


  #9  
Old October 14th 08, 09:24 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
stephen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 381
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:02:51 +0100, Daniel James
wrote:

In article news:[email protected], Rob Morley wrote:
PPPoE adds an ethernet wrapper to PPP packets (the same
protocol used in a POTS dialup connection, including the user/pass
session authentication). AFAIK it's usually only used with DSL services.


It's not obvious whether domestic broadband as supplied by Virgin Media
(formerly, in this case, Telewest/Blueyonder) is a "Digital Subscriber
Line" or not. It's neither ADSL nor SDSL, but ...


nope. the "line" uses DOCSIS, but since VM provide a cable modem - the
interface to the customer is 10/100 UTP Ethernet (eg 100 Base-Tx)

The uncertainty is made all the greater by the fact that a PPPoE
connection will (almost?) certainly ALSO be either a "DHCP" connection or
a "Fixed IP" connection (the IP address to be used must either be supplied
by the server or be a fixed address programmed into the host or the
router).


VM do not use PPPoE. They use the same straight IP v4 over Ethernet
that you would use locally between a PC and a router - ie the default
you get when you plug an Ethernet card into a PC etc.

However, in the case of a (former Blueyonder) Virgin line the correct
option is "DHCP" (and not PPPoE at all).


And the same for NTL (ex C&W, ex Nynex).

Cheers,
Daniel.

--
Regards

- replace xyz with ntl
  #10  
Old October 15th 08, 09:07 PM posted to uk.comp.home-networking
Rob Morley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,379
Default Blueyonder/Virgin router setup

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:02:51 +0100
Daniel James wrote:

In article news:[email protected], Rob Morley wrote:
PPPoE adds an ethernet wrapper to PPP packets (the same
protocol used in a POTS dialup connection, including the user/pass
session authentication). AFAIK it's usually only used with DSL
services.


It's not obvious whether domestic broadband as supplied by Virgin
Media (formerly, in this case, Telewest/Blueyonder) is a "Digital
Subscriber Line" or not. It's neither ADSL nor SDSL, but ...


Does the modem connect to a phone line or a cable that looks like a
satellite cable? Phone = DSL, cable = cable.

The uncertainty is made all the greater by the fact that a PPPoE
connection will (almost?) certainly ALSO be either a "DHCP"
connection or a "Fixed IP" connection (the IP address to be used must
either be supplied by the server or be a fixed address programmed
into the host or the router).


As I said, PPPoE runs on ethernet (the name rather gives it away) and
the ethernet connection will of course need to have an address assigned
to it either automatically or manually.

However, in the case of a (former Blueyonder) Virgin line the correct
option is "DHCP" (and not PPPoE at all).

I'm pretty sure I said that already.

 




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