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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

21CN



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 14th 08, 09:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Howard Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default 21CN


I have a question regarding 21CN

In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?

I live in an area where a lot of people have a line that is too long to
support DSL. I'm Ok (although it is rather slow, at least I have it) but
I know a number of people who cannot.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told that
21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).

However, my area is due for 21CN in 3rd quarter next year and already
the contractors (Enterprise) have been installing new poles and extra
(overhead) lines. It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local
loop. Why would they do that if 21CN only worked inwards from the switch?

What does the panel think, please? Is there any hope for my friends?

--
Howard Neil
  #2  
Old October 14th 08, 09:50 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default 21CN

Howard Neil wrote:

I have a question regarding 21CN
In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?


No.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told that
21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).


21CN doesn't change the way your phone connects to the exchange, only
the way the exchanges connect to each other.

21CN also allows faster ADSL speeds if you have an ADSL2+ capable router
(ISPs will need to change themselves and their customers over) though
the advantage will be much less for longer lines.

It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local
loop.


If that is what they are doing, it is not related to 21CN.
  #3  
Old October 14th 08, 10:52 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Howard Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default 21CN


Andy Burns wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

I have a question regarding 21CN
In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?


No.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told
that 21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).


21CN doesn't change the way your phone connects to the exchange, only
the way the exchanges connect to each other.

21CN also allows faster ADSL speeds if you have an ADSL2+ capable router
(ISPs will need to change themselves and their customers over) though
the advantage will be much less for longer lines.

It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local loop.


If that is what they are doing, it is not related to 21CN.


Thanks. I had spoken to the workmen and they said it was related to 21CN
but, of course, they don't have to have been telling the truth.

--
Howard Neil
  #4  
Old October 14th 08, 03:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default 21CN

Howard Neil wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

I have a question regarding 21CN
In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?


No.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if
every house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been
told that 21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).


21CN doesn't change the way your phone connects to the exchange, only
the way the exchanges connect to each other.

21CN also allows faster ADSL speeds if you have an ADSL2+ capable
router (ISPs will need to change themselves and their customers
over) though the advantage will be much less for longer lines.

It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local loop.


If that is what they are doing, it is not related to 21CN.


Thanks. I had spoken to the workmen and they said it was related to
21CN but, of course, they don't have to have been telling the truth.


Enterprise don't even know what 21CN is )


  #5  
Old October 14th 08, 04:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Simpsons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default 21CN


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Howard Neil wrote:

I have a question regarding 21CN
In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?


No.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told that
21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).


21CN doesn't change the way your phone connects to the exchange, only the
way the exchanges connect to each other.



There's almost no mention of 21CN by BT these days.
It seems they've abandoned the PSTN part, just another failed project?


21CN also allows faster ADSL speeds if you have an ADSL2+ capable router
(ISPs will need to change themselves and their customers over) though the
advantage will be much less for longer lines.


This is the part they may get working to justify some of the cost.
F

  #6  
Old October 14th 08, 05:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Daniel James
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default 21CN

In article , Andy
Burns wrote:
21CN doesn't change the way your phone connects to the exchange, only
the way the exchanges connect to each other.

21CN also allows faster ADSL speeds if you have an ADSL2+ capable router
(ISPs will need to change themselves and their customers over) though
the advantage will be much less for longer lines.


That doesn't sound consistent ... is ADSL2+ part of 21CN? If so 21CN does
affect the way your phone connects to the exchange -- not the cabling, but
the nature of the equipment at the exchange.

It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local
loop.


If that is what they are doing, it is not related to 21CN.


It could be that the 21CN effort makes it worth their while to upgrade the
loop, it could be that upgrading the loop makes it worth their while to
upgrade the exchange for 21CN, or it could be being done for another
company wishing to unbundle the loop.

21CN has certain targets (%age of households covered) and it could be that
it's cheaper to extend coverage by upgrading the loop in Howard's area
than to meet that target in other ways or in other areas ... there may be
hope for Howard's neighbours ...

Cheers,
Daniel.


  #7  
Old October 14th 08, 05:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
George Weston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default 21CN


"Howard Neil" wrote in message
et...

I have a question regarding 21CN

In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?

I live in an area where a lot of people have a line that is too long to
support DSL. I'm Ok (although it is rather slow, at least I have it) but I
know a number of people who cannot.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told that
21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).

However, my area is due for 21CN in 3rd quarter next year and already the
contractors (Enterprise) have been installing new poles and extra
(overhead) lines. It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local
loop. Why would they do that if 21CN only worked inwards from the switch?

What does the panel think, please? Is there any hope for my friends?

--
Howard Neil


See
http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Thetechnol...ogyintheUK.htm

You'll see that copper still figures in the arrangement

George


  #8  
Old October 14th 08, 05:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Howard Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default 21CN


George Weston wrote:
"Howard Neil" wrote in message
et...
I have a question regarding 21CN

In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?

I live in an area where a lot of people have a line that is too long to
support DSL. I'm Ok (although it is rather slow, at least I have it) but I
know a number of people who cannot.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told that
21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).

However, my area is due for 21CN in 3rd quarter next year and already the
contractors (Enterprise) have been installing new poles and extra
(overhead) lines. It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local
loop. Why would they do that if 21CN only worked inwards from the switch?

What does the panel think, please? Is there any hope for my friends?

--
Howard Neil


See
http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Thetechnol...ogyintheUK.htm

You'll see that copper still figures in the arrangement



Thanks for that link. Yes, copper does still figure. However DSL is
carried over copper today. While it would be nice to have end to end
fibre, I am more concerned about my neighbours being able to get broadband.

As helpful as that web site is, it still seems slightly ambiguous. For
instance, there is the statement: "As an end-to-end Internet Protocol
(IP)-based network, 21CN will consolidate BTís 17 separate network
platforms into one." To me, an end to end IP network is one that goes
all the way to the customer; not one that stops at the switch. Have I
misread this, please? Am I perhaps grasping at straws?

--
Howard Neil
  #9  
Old October 14th 08, 05:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default 21CN

I have a question regarding 21CN

In short, will BT have to ensure xDSL to the house?

I live in an area where a lot of people have a line that is too long to
support DSL. I'm Ok (although it is rather slow, at least I have it) but
I know a number of people who cannot.

The way I had read the situation is that 21CN would only work if every
house (that wanted a phone) was DSL enabled. I have just been told that
21CN will start at the switch (normally trusted source).

However, my area is due for 21CN in 3rd quarter next year and already
the contractors (Enterprise) have been installing new poles and extra
(overhead) lines. It certainly looks as if they are upgrading the local
loop. Why would they do that if 21CN only worked inwards from the
switch?

What does the panel think, please? Is there any hope for my friends?

--
Howard Neil


See
http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Thetechnol...ogyintheUK.htm

You'll see that copper still figures in the arrangement



Thanks for that link. Yes, copper does still figure. However DSL is
carried over copper today. While it would be nice to have end to end
fibre, I am more concerned about my neighbours being able to get
broadband.

As helpful as that web site is, it still seems slightly ambiguous. For
instance, there is the statement: "As an end-to-end Internet Protocol
(IP)-based network, 21CN will consolidate BTís 17 separate network
platforms into one." To me, an end to end IP network is one that goes all
the way to the customer; not one that stops at the switch. Have I misread
this, please? Am I perhaps grasping at straws?



In a way yes. Unless, and until, BT deploy fibre to the customers premises
then the last leg of the network will remain analogue over copper.

On a more general point BT appear to be seriously behind in meeting almost
all their targets for 21CN

Peter Crosland


  #10  
Old October 14th 08, 06:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
John Livingston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default 21CN

Howard Neil wrote:

Thanks for that link. Yes, copper does still figure. However DSL is
carried over copper today. While it would be nice to have end to end
fibre, I am more concerned about my neighbours being able to get broadband.

As helpful as that web site is, it still seems slightly ambiguous. For
instance, there is the statement: "As an end-to-end Internet Protocol
(IP)-based network, 21CN will consolidate BTís 17 separate network
platforms into one." To me, an end to end IP network is one that goes
all the way to the customer; not one that stops at the switch. Have I
misread this, please? Am I perhaps grasping at straws?


As I understand it, the primary difference in the local loop will be the
use of IP all the way to the customer rather than IP over ATM for the
final miles - as it is at the moment.

Voice would remain as baseband delivery over copper from the exchange to
the customer, but all inter-exchange traffic would be IP - including
voice. There are indeed many and varied internal legacy networks, but
these are transparent to the end customer.

At least, that's what I think is intended .....

John



 




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