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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

BB drop outs!!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 29th 08, 06:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flyig u 28 +
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default BB drop outs!!!

This afternoon my BB connection dropped out and reconnected 13 times within
a 5 minute period between 12:43:17 and 12:47:34. These drop-outs led to
the following changes in synch rate (the SNR relating to each new synch rate
is contained within the relevant parentheses)

Synch rate 6336(8.2dB) to 6304 (8.1dB) to 6208 (9.2dB) to 6272 (9.6dB) to
6336 (8.4dB) to 6272(6.8dB) to 6208 (3.4dB) to 4480 (12.3dB) to 4672
(12.9dB) to 4096 (10.5dB) to 4032 (4.9dB) to 5888 (4.9dB) to 5120 (3.6dB)
and to 5088 (8.7dB).

I rebooted the router at 13:28:36 and recovered synch rate to 6368 (9.8dB)
but a further disconnection at 14:20:18 dropped the synch rate to 4846
(15.6dB).

A further router reboot at 15:30:59 realised a synch rate 4928 (15.7dB)
which appears to have remained stable since then. It is now 18:40

So it appears after all the excitement that my target SNR has been upped
from 9db, (where it has been set and has performed satisfactorily for at
least 12 months), to 15dB.

My questions are these:
1 Has anyone any idea as to what produced the extremely erratic behaviour
around 12:45?
NB: I can't think of anything here that could account for it.
2 If my connection now remains stable will the target SNR be automatically
reduced again or
3 will I have to request a reduction of target SNR when the connection has
proved to be stable again?


--
Heard melodies are sweet, but those Unheard are sweeter
FN 28 +, Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland


  #2  
Old November 29th 08, 07:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ato_Zee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default BB drop outs!!!


My questions are these:
1 Has anyone any idea as to what produced the extremely erratic behaviour
around 12:45?
NB: I can't think of anything here that could account for it.

No, any Openreach work nearby?
Maybe running Krone tool along Krone strip in local JBox to try and fix
an intermittent, triggering another intermittent.
2 If my connection now remains stable will the target SNR be automatically
reduced again

Should be if everything is rniing stable again, but it can
take over a week, and no guarantee.
3 will I have to request a reduction of target SNR when the connection has
proved to be stable again?

If you have a responsive ISP they may get your target reduced,
if your line isn't stable that won't hold for long.
If your router supports it try resetting your SNR target with
DMT tool, but again if your line isn't stable it won't hold.
  #3  
Old November 29th 08, 08:30 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,222
Default BB drop outs!!!



"Flyig u 28 +" wrote:

This afternoon my BB connection dropped out and reconnected 13 times within
a 5 minute period between 12:43:17 and 12:47:34. These drop-outs led to
the following changes in synch rate (the SNR relating to each new synch rate
is contained within the relevant parentheses)

Synch rate 6336(8.2dB) to 6304 (8.1dB) to 6208 (9.2dB) to 6272 (9.6dB) to
6336 (8.4dB) to 6272(6.8dB) to 6208 (3.4dB) to 4480 (12.3dB) to 4672
(12.9dB) to 4096 (10.5dB) to 4032 (4.9dB) to 5888 (4.9dB) to 5120 (3.6dB)
and to 5088 (8.7dB).

I rebooted the router at 13:28:36 and recovered synch rate to 6368 (9.8dB)
but a further disconnection at 14:20:18 dropped the synch rate to 4846
(15.6dB).

A further router reboot at 15:30:59 realised a synch rate 4928 (15.7dB)
which appears to have remained stable since then. It is now 18:40

So it appears after all the excitement that my target SNR has been upped
from 9db, (where it has been set and has performed satisfactorily for at
least 12 months), to 15dB.

My questions are these:
1 Has anyone any idea as to what produced the extremely erratic behaviour
around 12:45?


Engineers fiddling with jumpers ?


NB: I can't think of anything here that could account for it.
2 If my connection now remains stable will the target SNR be automatically
reduced again or
3 will I have to request a reduction of target SNR when the connection has
proved to be stable again?


Once it's stable and the SNR margin is still that high then yes, contacting your
ISP is the answer. It's not actually SNR btw. It's the 'excess' SNR below which
operation will cease to function. Mine's hovering between 4.9 and 6.1 dB right
now and I can get a full 8128 kbps sync (line attenuation down 27.7dB).

Graham

  #4  
Old November 30th 08, 01:44 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flyig u 28 +
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default BB drop outs!!!

Ato_Zee wrote:
My questions are these:
1 Has anyone any idea as to what produced the extremely erratic
behaviour around 12:45?
NB: I can't think of anything here that could account for it.

No, any Openreach work nearby?
Maybe running Krone tool along Krone strip in local JBox to try and
fix an intermittent, triggering another intermittent.


Is it possible that transients induced on my line from faulty electrical
equipment elsewhere could cause it? I suspect that there is something
producing electrical interference (quite recently started) since I get audio
and video interference on BBC1 (analogue terrestrial) but no other channel
most days now. I suspect there's some faulty device somewhere nearby that
comes into operation when there's a cold spell (CH pumps or the like) .

2 If my connection now remains stable will the target SNR be
automatically reduced again

Should be if everything is rniing stable again, but it can
take over a week, and no guarantee.


I know that IP Profile is restored in that sort of time scale, but not SNR.
I'll try waiting a bit then.

3 will I have to request a reduction of target SNR when the
connection has proved to be stable again?


If you have a responsive ISP they may get your target reduced,
if your line isn't stable that won't hold for long.


Yep my ISP have done that for me quite some time ago. Apparently the manual
adjustment is quite simple. It's persuading BT to do it that takes all the
time and effort.

If your router supports it try resetting your SNR target with
DMT tool, but again if your line isn't stable it won't hold.

Unfortunately my router doesn't support the DMT tool.
--
Heard melodies are sweet, but those Unheard are sweeter
FN 28 +, Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland


  #5  
Old November 30th 08, 01:47 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flyig u 28 +
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default BB drop outs!!!

Eeyore wrote:
"Flyig u 28 +" wrote:

This afternoon my BB connection dropped out and reconnected 13 times
within a 5 minute period between 12:43:17 and 12:47:34. These
drop-outs led to the following changes in synch rate (the SNR
relating to each new synch rate is contained within the relevant
parentheses)

Synch rate 6336(8.2dB) to 6304 (8.1dB) to 6208 (9.2dB) to 6272
(9.6dB) to 6336 (8.4dB) to 6272(6.8dB) to 6208 (3.4dB) to 4480
(12.3dB) to 4672 (12.9dB) to 4096 (10.5dB) to 4032 (4.9dB) to 5888
(4.9dB) to 5120 (3.6dB) and to 5088 (8.7dB).

I rebooted the router at 13:28:36 and recovered synch rate to 6368
(9.8dB) but a further disconnection at 14:20:18 dropped the synch
rate to 4846 (15.6dB).

A further router reboot at 15:30:59 realised a synch rate 4928
(15.7dB) which appears to have remained stable since then. It is now
18:40

So it appears after all the excitement that my target SNR has been
upped from 9db, (where it has been set and has performed
satisfactorily for at least 12 months), to 15dB.

My questions are these:
1 Has anyone any idea as to what produced the extremely erratic
behaviour around 12:45?


Engineers fiddling with jumpers ?


NB: I can't think of anything here that could account for it.
2 If my connection now remains stable will the target SNR be
automatically reduced again or
3 will I have to request a reduction of target SNR when the
connection has proved to be stable again?


Once it's stable and the SNR margin is still that high then yes,
contacting your ISP is the answer. It's not actually SNR btw. It's
the 'excess' SNR below which operation will cease to function. Mine's
hovering between 4.9 and 6.1 dB right now and I can get a full 8128
kbps sync (line attenuation down 27.7dB).

Graham

Thanks Graham. The actual running SNR, as I call it, used to vary between
8.5dB and 10dB before yesterday afternoon's little episode. It's now
hovering around 15dB. The figures I quoted are those that the router log
quotes as the connection is being set up.
--
Heard melodies are sweet, but those Unheard are sweeter
FN 28 +, Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland


  #6  
Old November 30th 08, 02:51 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 848
Default BB drop outs!!!

Join the clan...
I have such episodes every 3-4 months, and less severe ones every couple of
weeks.
Previously rebooting the router would fairly quickly bring the SNR down to
normal 6dB.
However, in May this year it got stuck on 15dB, because BT changed their DLM
program.
Took me months to get ISP to get BT to bring it down to 12dB, and same
hassle again to persuade them that it will work at 9dB.
I KNOW it will work most of the time at 6dB, but BT won't let me :-(
Used to get 2.8Mb/s, now I struggle to hold on to ~1.7Mb/s.
Not happy about it, but stuck with BT line, there is no alternative !
Regards,
Martin


  #7  
Old November 30th 08, 10:18 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flyig u 28 +
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default BB drop outs!!!

Martin wrote:
Join the clan...
I have such episodes every 3-4 months, and less severe ones every
couple of weeks.
Previously rebooting the router would fairly quickly bring the SNR
down to normal 6dB.
However, in May this year it got stuck on 15dB, because BT changed
their DLM program.
Took me months to get ISP to get BT to bring it down to 12dB, and same
hassle again to persuade them that it will work at 9dB.
I KNOW it will work most of the time at 6dB, but BT won't let me :-(
Used to get 2.8Mb/s, now I struggle to hold on to ~1.7Mb/s.
Not happy about it, but stuck with BT line, there is no alternative !
Regards,
Martin


I had an episode about 18 months ago where BT upped the SNR from 9 to 12dB.
After several weeks discussing the problem, my ISP persuaded them to revert
to 9 dB and everything was fine since then until this recent event. The SNR
is now at 15dB and synch rate down at 4700 from the usual ~ 6400. IOP
Profile has been reduced from 5500 to 3500, so within 48 hours my download
speeds are down from around 5200 to 3300 kbps. Unfortunately there appear
to be lots of crc errors occurring even at 15 dB so a change back to 9dB may
not be on the cards this time.
--
Heard melodies are sweet, but those Unheard are sweeter
FN 28 +, Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland


  #8  
Old November 30th 08, 10:42 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,222
Default BB drop outs!!!



"Martin" wrote:

Join the clan...
I have such episodes every 3-4 months, and less severe ones every couple of
weeks.
Previously rebooting the router would fairly quickly bring the SNR down to
normal 6dB.
However, in May this year it got stuck on 15dB, because BT changed their DLM
program.
Took me months to get ISP to get BT to bring it down to 12dB, and same
hassle again to persuade them that it will work at 9dB.
I KNOW it will work most of the time at 6dB, but BT won't let me :-(
Used to get 2.8Mb/s, now I struggle to hold on to ~1.7Mb/s.
Not happy about it, but stuck with BT line, there is no alternative !


Hmmmm. Never had this specific problem but Idnet got BT to change the latency
back to fast from interleaved once for me.

Graham

  #9  
Old November 30th 08, 11:22 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Flyig u 28 +
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default BB drop outs!!!

Flyig u 28 + wrote:
Martin wrote:
Join the clan...
I have such episodes every 3-4 months, and less severe ones every
couple of weeks.
Previously rebooting the router would fairly quickly bring the SNR
down to normal 6dB.
However, in May this year it got stuck on 15dB, because BT changed
their DLM program.
Took me months to get ISP to get BT to bring it down to 12dB, and
same hassle again to persuade them that it will work at 9dB.
I KNOW it will work most of the time at 6dB, but BT won't let me :-(
Used to get 2.8Mb/s, now I struggle to hold on to ~1.7Mb/s.
Not happy about it, but stuck with BT line, there is no alternative !
Regards,
Martin


I had an episode about 18 months ago where BT upped the SNR from 9 to
12dB. After several weeks discussing the problem, my ISP persuaded
them to revert to 9 dB and everything was fine since then until this
recent event. The SNR is now at 15dB and synch rate down at 4700
from the usual ~ 6400. IOP Profile has been reduced from 5500 to
3500, so within 48 hours my download speeds are down from around
5200 to 3300 kbps. Unfortunately there appear to be lots of crc
errors occurring even at 15 dB so a change back to 9dB may not be on
the cards this time.

Even got a couple of crc errors on upstream today. Never ever seen crc
errors there before, that's always been so stable.
--
Heard melodies are sweet, but those Unheard are sweeter
FN 28 +, Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland


  #10  
Old November 30th 08, 11:58 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default BB drop outs!!!

In message , Flyig u 28 +
writes
Ato_Zee wrote:
My questions are these:
1 Has anyone any idea as to what produced the extremely erratic
behaviour around 12:45?
NB: I can't think of anything here that could account for it.

No, any Openreach work nearby?
Maybe running Krone tool along Krone strip in local JBox to try and
fix an intermittent, triggering another intermittent.


Is it possible that transients induced on my line from faulty electrical
equipment elsewhere could cause it? I suspect that there is something
producing electrical interference (quite recently started) since I get audio
and video interference on BBC1 (analogue terrestrial) but no other channel
most days now. I suspect there's some faulty device somewhere nearby that
comes into operation when there's a cold spell (CH pumps or the like) .

2 If my connection now remains stable will the target SNR be
automatically reduced again

Should be if everything is rniing stable again, but it can
take over a week, and no guarantee.


I know that IP Profile is restored in that sort of time scale, but not SNR.
I'll try waiting a bit then.

3 will I have to request a reduction of target SNR when the
connection has proved to be stable again?


If you have a responsive ISP they may get your target reduced,
if your line isn't stable that won't hold for long.


Yep my ISP have done that for me quite some time ago. Apparently the manual
adjustment is quite simple. It's persuading BT to do it that takes all the
time and effort.

If your router supports it try resetting your SNR target with
DMT tool, but again if your line isn't stable it won't hold.

Unfortunately my router doesn't support the DMT tool.

I had a similar incident in July following a big electrical storm in the
area. The exchange reset my target SNR to 12dB. Plusnet arranged to
reset it back down to 6dB which worked fine, but a couple of weeks later
it wound itself back up to 15dB. The impression I got (from reading
various forums (fora?)) was that BT had upgraded the monitoring to take
into consideration the error rates on the line as well as simply
dropouts.

My line is longish, and almost all overhead - it suffers from some level
of burst interference ( probably from the local agricultural machinery
repair shop - an arc welder?) and a significant day/night fluctuation
(MW RF pickup?). It is long term stable at sync speeds around 6300 with
SNR varying from 5db at night to 8-9dB during the day. At over 5dB error
rates are very low (0,1 or 2 ES per 15 minute period). At night the rate
can rise to 6-10 ES per minute when the SNR drops below 5dB)

I resorted to an ex Sky DG834GT router (12 off Ebay) and the DGTeam
firmware to let me manipulate the SNR Target. Turning the target down to
40% allowed me to resync at around 6300 and all was well.

Recently ( so 2-3 months of stable running ) my line appears to have
reset its target SNR to 6db. I only noticed because the router resync'd
during the day ( somebody dropped the arc welder?) to 7800ish with a
SNR of 3dB - at which point the error rates were significant!! I now run
at 80% target so that any resets during the night get me above 6240 and
maintain the BRAS profile at 5500.

So it looks as if the exchange will reset SNR - but it takes a long
time. I would ask your ISP in the first place - secondly get a router
that allows you to control things.
--
Peter R Cook
 




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