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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Gradwell and Tiscali LLU



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 8th 09, 09:13 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tony Mountifield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: - http://tony.mountifield.org
  #2  
Old May 8th 09, 10:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
George Weston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU


"Tony Mountifield" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other
services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business
Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I
wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?


From what I can remember of the Plusnet debacle (I wasn't involved and
Plusnet no longer offer/compel their customers to transfer to LLU) it
offered an increase in upload speed only.

George


  #3  
Old May 8th 09, 11:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Davies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

Tony Mountifield wrote:
I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views [...]


1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation [...]
2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service [...]


I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their [Gradwell's]
Business Broadband offerings, and they state quite clearly that they
use Tiscali LLU.


Tiscali's consumer broadband operation is distinct from its wholesale
LLU operation.

Chris
  #4  
Old May 8th 09, 11:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 164
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU



"George Weston" wrote in message
...

"Tony Mountifield" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other
services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from
people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business
Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I
wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU
is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line.
Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?


From what I can remember of the Plusnet debacle (I wasn't involved and
Plusnet no longer offer/compel their customers to transfer to LLU) it
offered an increase in upload speed only.


The ordinary Tiscali broadband customers were quietly cut-over
to the LLU kit as it was rolled out in the exchanges.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


  #5  
Old May 9th 09, 01:36 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil W Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

(Tony Mountifield) considered Fri, 8 May 2009
20:13:37 +0000 (UTC) the perfect time to write:

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?

Cheers
Tony


I wouldn't touch it with any length pole at the moment, as the Tiscali
LLU is about to be assimilated into Carphone Warehouse LLU.
Even if by some miracle, they could both be brought up to a decent
standard, the merger is bound to cause problems.
  #6  
Old May 9th 09, 02:50 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other
services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business
Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I
wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?

Cheers
Tony


I wouldn't touch it with any length pole at the moment, as the Tiscali
LLU is about to be assimilated into Carphone Warehouse LLU.
Even if by some miracle, they could both be brought up to a decent
standard, the merger is bound to cause problems.


I don't think so. CW have bought the Tiscali broadband customers. The LLU
operation is a separate operation and AFAIK not part of it.

Peter Crosland


  #7  
Old May 9th 09, 05:57 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Phil W Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

"Peter Crosland" considered Sat, 9 May 2009
02:50:01 +0100 the perfect time to write:

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other
services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business
Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I
wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?

Cheers
Tony


I wouldn't touch it with any length pole at the moment, as the Tiscali
LLU is about to be assimilated into Carphone Warehouse LLU.
Even if by some miracle, they could both be brought up to a decent
standard, the merger is bound to cause problems.


I don't think so. CW have bought the Tiscali broadband customers. The LLU
operation is a separate operation and AFAIK not part of it.

Peter Crosland

But even if it isn't included in the sale,

a) Tiscali is still in deep financial doo-doo, and
b) How viable is the LLU operation going to be once CW have migrated
all the Tiscali BB costomers over to their own?

Moving what must be 50% of the customers off it is going to either
leave huge over capacity (which Tiscali can ill-afford) or need
capacity to be reduced, which (given Tiscalis past record) is unlikely
to go smoothly.

There may be a period of low contention, while capacity is above needs
after the Tiscali BB customers have been moved over to CW, but expect
problems when they start cutting it back, or worse, go tits up
altogether. Of course, it's possible that will happen before the
customers can be migrated to CW, in which case CW may get it anyway,
at a similarly firesale price.
  #8  
Old May 9th 09, 09:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Crosland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other
services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from
people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business
Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I
wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU
is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line.
Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm
already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?

Cheers
Tony

I wouldn't touch it with any length pole at the moment, as the Tiscali
LLU is about to be assimilated into Carphone Warehouse LLU.
Even if by some miracle, they could both be brought up to a decent
standard, the merger is bound to cause problems.


I don't think so. CW have bought the Tiscali broadband customers. The LLU
operation is a separate operation and AFAIK not part of it.

Peter Crosland

But even if it isn't included in the sale,

a) Tiscali is still in deep financial doo-doo, and
b) How viable is the LLU operation going to be once CW have migrated
all the Tiscali BB costomers over to their own?

Moving what must be 50% of the customers off it is going to either
leave huge over capacity (which Tiscali can ill-afford) or need
capacity to be reduced, which (given Tiscalis past record) is unlikely
to go smoothly.

There may be a period of low contention, while capacity is above needs
after the Tiscali BB customers have been moved over to CW, but expect
problems when they start cutting it back, or worse, go tits up
altogether. Of course, it's possible that will happen before the
customers can be migrated to CW, in which case CW may get it anyway,
at a similarly firesale price.


In most respects I agree but that was not my point which was the clear
separation between the Tiscali network business and their broadband customer
operation. The fact that Tiscali finally accepted less than half CW's
original offer speaks volumes, and it is difficult to see how their network
business can survive without the broadband customer base. Somehow I can't
see CW wanting to buy it because much of it must duplicate their existing
infrastructure. Also CW have a big logistical job to transfer the Tiscali
customers to their own network without the added headache.

Peter Crosland


  #9  
Old May 9th 09, 09:44 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Petert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

On Sat, 9 May 2009 02:50:01 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind two apparently incompatible views,
and would welcome any informed comments :-)

1. Gradwell have for many years had an excellent reputation anomg the UK
cognoscenti for their service and infrastructure. I use them currently
for secondary DNS service and would be happy to use them for other
services
as I had need.

2. Tiscali seem to have a poor reputation for service, at least in the
uk.telecom.* newsgroups, and I remember seeing many complaints from people
who found themselves moved from BT to Tiscali LLU (Plusnet customers?).

I was looking on the Gradwell site the other day at their Business
Broadband
offerings, and they state quite clearly that they use Tiscali LLU. So I
wasn't
sure what to think: (a) Gradwell are going downhill, or (b) Tiscali LLU is
not (no longer?) as bad as the reputation I've seen.

So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?

Cheers
Tony


I wouldn't touch it with any length pole at the moment, as the Tiscali
LLU is about to be assimilated into Carphone Warehouse LLU.
Even if by some miracle, they could both be brought up to a decent
standard, the merger is bound to cause problems.


I don't think so. CW have bought the Tiscali broadband customers. The LLU
operation is a separate operation and AFAIK not part of it.

Peter Crosland


Sam Knows seems to indicate that CPW have bought all of Tiscalis UK
assets, which I would take to mean not only their BB customers but
everthing else as well

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ne...-spot-594.html
  #10  
Old May 12th 09, 09:00 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tony Mountifield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Gradwell and Tiscali LLU

In article ,
Tony Mountifield wrote:
[...]
So I guess I'm ill-informed or out of date somewhere along the line. Would
anyone with experience of the Gradwell Business Broadband on Tiscali LLU
care to comment?

Also, is LLU likely to gain me anything, performance-wise, if I'm already
at the end of a 4.3km piece of BT's wet string, and can't get much more
than 2Mbit on ADSLmax?


Thanks for all the responses - interesting reading. Although no-one has
said they actually use Gradwell Broadband. If anyone reading this does
use it, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: - http://tony.mountifield.org
 




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