A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

'Twisted pair' question



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 6th 09, 03:06 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default 'Twisted pair' question

I suspect I am going to regret asking this question.

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?

Thanks
Scott
  #2  
Old June 6th 09, 03:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default 'Twisted pair' question

Scott wrote:
I suspect I am going to regret asking this question.

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?


I have no idea..does it work?

Over a short run twisted pair vis a vis ordinary wire wont make much
difference. Running a bell wire might tho. Easiest to use a master
faceplate on the extension and NOT run the bell wire.




Thanks
Scott

  #3  
Old June 6th 09, 03:18 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default 'Twisted pair' question

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:11:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Scott wrote:
I suspect I am going to regret asking this question.

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?


I have no idea..does it work?

Over a short run twisted pair vis a vis ordinary wire wont make much
difference. Running a bell wire might tho. Easiest to use a master
faceplate on the extension and NOT run the bell wire.

It certainly works but without a lot of speed testing I don't know
whether it is detrimental to performance. That was why I was asking
those who might have an idea!

So far as the bell wire goes, if it is disconnected the extension
phone does not ring.

(I should have said 'bell wire' not 'earth wire'.)
  #4  
Old June 6th 09, 03:33 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default 'Twisted pair' question

Scott wrote:
On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:11:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Scott wrote:
I suspect I am going to regret asking this question.

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?

I have no idea..does it work?

Over a short run twisted pair vis a vis ordinary wire wont make much
difference. Running a bell wire might tho. Easiest to use a master
faceplate on the extension and NOT run the bell wire.

It certainly works but without a lot of speed testing I don't know
whether it is detrimental to performance. That was why I was asking
those who might have an idea!

So far as the bell wire goes, if it is disconnected the extension
phone does not ring.


So use a 'master' faceplate to regenerate it.

(I should have said 'bell wire' not 'earth wire'.)


I reaslised that..
  #5  
Old June 6th 09, 03:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ato_Zee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default 'Twisted pair' question


On 6-Jun-2009, Scott wrote:

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?


Splitter faceplate fitted to master socket is unclear, is it an
NTE5 master socket?
It it is an NTE5 (many illustrations with a Google search) you
should, with the faceplate fitted, have a small RJ11 socket which
matches the RJ11 plugs on modem/router patch leads, plus
a standard BT style phone socket into which a phone can be
plugged.
It's not clear how you have fitted the appropriate plugs onto
your 8-core, and whether the 8-core has 4 individually
twisted pairs.
The unspecified possibilities are 8-straight wires in the 8-core,
or 4-twisted pairs which would also be 8-core, if the cores are
pairs then it might even be CAT5 spec.
If the 8-core has individually twisted pairs, and one of these
pairs is ADSL only, though not ideal, it should work.
If it is straight untwisted wires think about putting
the modem/router next to the master socket, then
running CAT5 to the PC's location.
Which raises a further question, how is the PC connected
to the router, RJ45 patch lead, or wireless?
  #6  
Old June 6th 09, 07:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default 'Twisted pair' question

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 14:45:57 GMT, "Ato_Zee"
wrote:


On 6-Jun-2009, Scott wrote:

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?


Splitter faceplate fitted to master socket is unclear, is it an
NTE5 master socket?


Yes

It it is an NTE5 (many illustrations with a Google search) you
should, with the faceplate fitted, have a small RJ11 socket which
matches the RJ11 plugs on modem/router patch leads, plus
a standard BT style phone socket into which a phone can be
plugged.


Yes

It's not clear how you have fitted the appropriate plugs onto
your 8-core, and whether the 8-core has 4 individually
twisted pairs.


I was trying to keep it simple. The faceplate was modified before
purchase (purchased on the internet). On the back are the original
three positions for phone cables to which I have connected three cores
of the eight core cable. There is a second connector on the back. I
have connected two cores to that (and the same to the RJ11 (RJ45?)
socket on the extension. The router does work so it must all be
connected properly.

The unspecified possibilities are 8-straight wires in the 8-core,
or 4-twisted pairs which would also be 8-core, if the cores are
pairs then it might even be CAT5 spec.
If the 8-core has individually twisted pairs, and one of these
pairs is ADSL only, though not ideal, it should work.
If it is straight untwisted wires think about putting
the modem/router next to the master socket, then
running CAT5 to the PC's location.


I don't know how I can tell if the cores are twisted or not, but I am
pretty sure they are not 'individually' twisted.

Which raises a further question, how is the PC connected
to the router, RJ45 patch lead, or wireless?


At the moment it is wireless as I can't get the ethernet cable to
work. I did have the router at the master socket until today
(connected wirelessly), but I decided to try it on the extension to
try a wired connection. This seems to be something of a disaster so
far!

  #7  
Old June 6th 09, 08:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 164
Default 'Twisted pair' question



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 14:45:57 GMT, "Ato_Zee"
wrote:


On 6-Jun-2009, Scott wrote:

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?


Splitter faceplate fitted to master socket is unclear, is it an
NTE5 master socket?


Yes

It it is an NTE5 (many illustrations with a Google search) you
should, with the faceplate fitted, have a small RJ11 socket which
matches the RJ11 plugs on modem/router patch leads, plus
a standard BT style phone socket into which a phone can be
plugged.


Yes

It's not clear how you have fitted the appropriate plugs onto
your 8-core, and whether the 8-core has 4 individually
twisted pairs.


I was trying to keep it simple. The faceplate was modified before
purchase (purchased on the internet). On the back are the original
three positions for phone cables to which I have connected three cores
of the eight core cable. There is a second connector on the back. I
have connected two cores to that (and the same to the RJ11 (RJ45?)
socket on the extension. The router does work so it must all be
connected properly.

The unspecified possibilities are 8-straight wires in the 8-core,
or 4-twisted pairs which would also be 8-core, if the cores are
pairs then it might even be CAT5 spec.
If the 8-core has individually twisted pairs, and one of these
pairs is ADSL only, though not ideal, it should work.
If it is straight untwisted wires think about putting
the modem/router next to the master socket, then
running CAT5 to the PC's location.


I don't know how I can tell if the cores are twisted or not, but I am
pretty sure they are not 'individually' twisted.


With normal telephone cable the twist isn't always obvious unless
you strip 20cm of sheath unlike cat CAT5 where the twist
is very obvious and would have been a better choice in
your application IMHO.
If it is proper modern telecoms 4 pair, the colours will be:

blue/white stripe
white/blue stripe

orange/white stripe
white/orange stripe

green/white stripe
white/green stripe

If the colours are as above, then at least you do have twisted pair.
The mutually twisted conducters are grouped in that list.

The importent thing is that you use one pair (say the blues) for
the phone 2-2 and 5-5 and another (say the orange) for the unfiltered ADSL

then you would use one wire of the remaining green pair for the bell 3-3
But personally I would not connect the bell wire at all in this application.

Does your installation differ in any way to the above?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


  #8  
Old June 6th 09, 08:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ato_Zee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default 'Twisted pair' question


On 6-Jun-2009, Scott wrote:

I was trying to keep it simple. The faceplate was modified before
purchase (purchased on the internet). On the back are the original
three positions for phone cables to which I have connected three cores
of the eight core cable. There is a second connector on the back. I
have connected two cores to that (and the same to the RJ11 (RJ45?)
socket on the extension. The router does work so it must all be
connected properly.



At the moment it is wireless as I can't get the ethernet cable to
work. I did have the router at the master socket until today
(connected wirelessly), but I decided to try it on the extension to
try a wired connection. This seems to be something of a disaster so
far!


I suspect you may have a problem, or several problems.
I'd query whether the midified before purchase faceplate has
a built in ADSL filter (one or more ferrite ring core torroids and some
capacitors).
If there is a filter it should be between the incoming phone pair
and the phones (the filter SHOULD NOT filter the 2-wires for
the ADSL, these go straight to the incoming phone pair.)
That is the modem part of the router is connected one-to-one
to the incoming phone pair.
The filter toroid + capacitors goes to the phone and most
modern phones don't need the bell wire, a few are fussy
which way round the phone pair is connected polarity wise.
Commonly IF there is a bell wire there is a bell wire
capacitor.
Ethernet is a bit tricky to wire, it is not 1 to 1, Google
for ethernet wiring, in some cases the PC to router needs
crossover wiring. Mine did, the faceplates were
marked and color coded for the A and B ends. It then
all worked with standard flexible patch cables at each
end.
Straight untwisted is not good for the ADSL pair, it could
reduce your sync speed, which is why twisted is recommened.
Router next to NTE5 is best.
  #9  
Old June 6th 09, 08:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default 'Twisted pair' question

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 20:25:36 +0100, "Graham." wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 14:45:57 GMT, "Ato_Zee"
wrote:


On 6-Jun-2009, Scott wrote:

I have read the varous comments about the importance of using 'twisted
pai' cable. I have the following set-up. I fitted a splitter
frontplate to the master socket. I then ran an 8 core cable to an
extension in my study/bedroom which has a split telephone/computer
outlet. Two of the cores are for broadband and three for telephone. I
tried disconnecting the earth wire but the phone stopped ringing. I
then plugged the router into that extension socket. Am I making a
mistake?

Splitter faceplate fitted to master socket is unclear, is it an
NTE5 master socket?


Yes

It it is an NTE5 (many illustrations with a Google search) you
should, with the faceplate fitted, have a small RJ11 socket which
matches the RJ11 plugs on modem/router patch leads, plus
a standard BT style phone socket into which a phone can be
plugged.


Yes

It's not clear how you have fitted the appropriate plugs onto
your 8-core, and whether the 8-core has 4 individually
twisted pairs.


I was trying to keep it simple. The faceplate was modified before
purchase (purchased on the internet). On the back are the original
three positions for phone cables to which I have connected three cores
of the eight core cable. There is a second connector on the back. I
have connected two cores to that (and the same to the RJ11 (RJ45?)
socket on the extension. The router does work so it must all be
connected properly.

The unspecified possibilities are 8-straight wires in the 8-core,
or 4-twisted pairs which would also be 8-core, if the cores are
pairs then it might even be CAT5 spec.
If the 8-core has individually twisted pairs, and one of these
pairs is ADSL only, though not ideal, it should work.
If it is straight untwisted wires think about putting
the modem/router next to the master socket, then
running CAT5 to the PC's location.


I don't know how I can tell if the cores are twisted or not, but I am
pretty sure they are not 'individually' twisted.


With normal telephone cable the twist isn't always obvious unless
you strip 20cm of sheath unlike cat CAT5 where the twist
is very obvious and would have been a better choice in
your application IMHO.
If it is proper modern telecoms 4 pair, the colours will be:

blue/white stripe
white/blue stripe

orange/white stripe
white/orange stripe

green/white stripe
white/green stripe

If the colours are as above, then at least you do have twisted pair.
The mutually twisted conducters are grouped in that list.

The importent thing is that you use one pair (say the blues) for
the phone 2-2 and 5-5 and another (say the orange) for the unfiltered ADSL

then you would use one wire of the remaining green pair for the bell 3-3
But personally I would not connect the bell wire at all in this application.

Does your installation differ in any way to the above?


That's pretty much it, except I used the browns for the adsl. I
connected the bell wire because one of the extension phones does not
ring without it. I could live without if it would make a difference
to the broadband performance (or even the acoustic quality of the
phone).

What I am trying to establish is whether it is better to put the
router in the hall and connect it wirelessly to the computer, or to
put it in the study/bedroom with an ethernet connection. The wireless
slows down the start up of the computer.

However, an added mystery today is the the router won't work with an
ethernet cable, only wirelessly. The computer (Windows 7, just to
confuse things further) says the network cable is unplugged when it
clearly is not. The cable is certified network cable (Category 5+) so
I assume it is the correct cable to use. I tried reversing its
direction but this did not work either. I suppose it could be faulty
but that seems a bit unlikely. I wonder if I am missing something.

Thanks for your help.
  #10  
Old June 6th 09, 09:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 164
Default 'Twisted pair' question





That's pretty much it, except I used the browns for the adsl. I
connected the bell wire because one of the extension phones does not
ring without it. I could live without if it would make a difference
to the broadband performance (or even the acoustic quality of the
phone).

What I am trying to establish is whether it is better to put the
router in the hall and connect it wirelessly to the computer, or to
put it in the study/bedroom with an ethernet connection. The wireless
slows down the start up of the computer.

However, an added mystery today is the the router won't work with an
ethernet cable, only wirelessly. The computer (Windows 7, just to
confuse things further) says the network cable is unplugged when it
clearly is not. The cable is certified network cable (Category 5+) so
I assume it is the correct cable to use. I tried reversing its
direction but this did not work either. I suppose it could be faulty
but that seems a bit unlikely. I wonder if I am missing something.

Thanks for your help.


I would disconnect the bell wire and connect the non-ringing phone
with a spare ADSL filter. That may sound strange advice as all
your voice sockets are filtered centrally at the NTE5, but it is
a valid thing to do as the filter contains a capacitor that couples
one side of the line to pin 3 making it emulate a local master socket.

As fat the LAN problem, it could be the NIC in the computer,
or the router, or the cable of course.
I have an old Sweex router that works fine on all 4 ports, but only
if using a crossover cable between the router and NIC. Go figure.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to trace a pair? BJH uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 5 May 16th 08 09:31 PM
For Kraftee - lead single pair entry cable? m uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 18 March 17th 08 06:16 PM
Twisted Cable naza uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 7 March 1st 07 12:25 AM
Line fault - pair swap? Gareth uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 12 December 31st 04 08:20 PM
Sharing ethernet and ADSL on 4-pair CAT5 DMG uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 2 September 18th 04 04:38 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2019 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.