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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

"Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 27th 10, 11:57 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Kevin Buzzard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

I have a nice home broadband internet connection---it's quite fast,
no complaints in general. *But* I suspect something is timing out
somewhe if I point my browser at a site where I haven't
been for a while, there is a very very long pause (5 seconds or so)
before we get going. The problem is not broadband speed: once
the first page from a site loads, I can zip from page to page
essentially instantly.

Explicit example: going to www.bbc.co.uk/news: takes about 5 seconds
to display the front page, with google chrome displaying "Sending request..."
in the bottom left hand corner. Once it has displayed I can click on
a news story, then a related link, then something else, and everything
is very fast.

The issue is not OS-specific: we have windows, linux and mac on our
wireless network, and the issue is with all of them.

The issue is not browser-specific: we're seeing it with chrome and
firefox. e.g. on firefox I get "Looking www.bbc.co.uk" for 6-7
seconds then "Read www.bbc.co.uk" for 5 or so seconds, then it
all appears, and then wham wham wham all very quick.

The issue is probably not "a physical piece of wire" specific,
or "an electric problem with your router"-specific. The problem
started when we swiched providers from Tiscali to Talk-Talk a few weeks ago.

The issue (surprisingly) does not _appear_ to be DNS-specific
either :-/ Well, maybe it is. How do I check? I have switched
the DNS on my router from talktalk to opendns 208.67.222.222
and 208.67.220.220 but the problem seems to persist---that's
how I checked. I can ping 208.67.222.222 and it responds instantly.

I'd happily try and debug this further myself but I am basically
out of ideas. Where do I go next?

Kevin
  #2  
Old November 27th 10, 12:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bernard Peek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 202
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

On 27/11/10 11:57, Kevin Buzzard wrote:

The issue (surprisingly) does not _appear_ to be DNS-specific
either :-/ Well, maybe it is. How do I check? I have switched
the DNS on my router from talktalk to opendns 208.67.222.222
and 208.67.220.220 but the problem seems to persist---that's
how I checked. I can ping 208.67.222.222 and it responds instantly.

I'd happily try and debug this further myself but I am basically
out of ideas. Where do I go next?


Sounds as if its the slow response from your router. Try giving the
workstations the DNS numbers instead of relying on the router.


--
Bernard Peek

  #3  
Old November 27th 10, 12:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

Kevin Buzzard wrote:

I have a nice home broadband internet connection---it's quite fast, no
complaints in general. *But* I suspect something is timing out somewhe
if I point my browser at a site where I haven't been for a while, there is
a very very long pause (5 seconds or so) before we get going. The problem
is not broadband speed: once the first page from a site loads, I can zip
from page to page essentially instantly.

Explicit example: going to www.bbc.co.uk/news: takes about 5 seconds to
display the front page, with google chrome displaying "Sending request..."
in the bottom left hand corner. Once it has displayed I can click on a
news story, then a related link, then something else, and everything is
very fast.


The first display of a webpage from a complex site could take ages because
apart from the basic page contents, your browser will have to download lots
of CSS and image files (for things like buttons/icons on that and every
other page on the site).

If you see this for every site including simple ones, it's less easy to
blame that though.

How often do you empty each browser's cache?


Another issue is routeing; traffic form your machine to a web server and
back has to pass through multiple other machines. The route that is chosen
between them has to be discovered and remembered by routers all along the
route. It's possible that a first query will take ages because some or
several routers along the route have forgotten how to contact the next
machine along. After they've found that out subsequent requests can take
instant advantage. (At my former employer - a very large computer site - we
had some connections that tended to have this problem - I can't recall why -
and had an automatically run ping command that ran every few minutes just to
keep the connection definition fresh in each router [not physically in our
network] concerned.) Diagnosing this sort of thing is reasonably easy with
ping and traceroute commands, provided one knows which destination machine
(and thus route) has the problem. Your problem is you have no idea what
machine(s)/route(s) are the problem, and even if you find a reason you'd
then need to persuade ISPs etc to fix their network problems.


The issue is not OS-specific: we have windows, linux and mac on our
wireless network, and the issue is with all of them.


Each machine has its own cache though, and they all have to be populated.

The issue is not browser-specific: we're seeing it with chrome and
firefox.


Browsers might not use the same cache...

e.g. on firefox I get "Looking www.bbc.co.uk" for 6-7 seconds then "Read
www.bbc.co.uk" for 5 or so seconds, then it all appears, and then wham
wham wham all very quick.


Which kind-of implies a delay in getting one vital bit of info...


The issue is probably not "a physical piece of wire" specific, or "an
electric problem with your router"-specific. The problem started when we
swiched providers from Tiscali to Talk-Talk a few weeks ago.


If this is only a browser problem then it may imply that TalkTalk are
running http proxies (so actually page fetches etc come from those machines
rather than BBC servers), and perhasp they're overloaded. I don't know how
you'd find out.

The issue (surprisingly) does not _appear_ to be DNS-specific either :-/
Well, maybe it is. How do I check? I have switched the DNS on my router
from talktalk to opendns 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 but the problem
seems to persist---that's how I checked. I can ping 208.67.222.222 and it
responds instantly.


You rrouter is probably cacheing DNS information; how often does the router
get switched off? Maybe it has a problem...


If there's a simple site you regularly visit that shows this problem you can
point the browser at

http://nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn

as appropriate rather than the textual URL. But if the page refers to
umpteen other files by URL name (which it probably will) DNS will be needed
for all of them too.

It might be that there's a DNS problem with some subsidiary site referenced
by many pages on many websites.


I'd happily try and debug this further myself but I am basically
out of ideas. Where do I go next?


I think first you try and find a simple website that has a page that doesn't
have lots of other sites' URLs in it. Maybe Google? Then you find (via a
ping command, what the local Google server's ip address is today), and see
if browsing to http://nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn shows the same slow once, fast
afterwards behaviour.

Is this only a browser problem? Do eg email send/fetch, nntp send/fetch
work at the same speeds every time?


--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".
  #5  
Old November 27th 10, 02:58 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
kráftéé
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection


"Kevin Buzzard" wrote in message
...
I have a nice home broadband internet connection---it's quite fast,
no complaints in general. *But* I suspect something is timing out
somewhe if I point my browser at a site where I haven't
been for a while, there is a very very long pause (5 seconds or so)
before we get going. The problem is not broadband speed: once
the first page from a site loads, I can zip from page to page
essentially instantly.

Explicit example: going to www.bbc.co.uk/news: takes about 5 seconds
to display the front page, with google chrome displaying "Sending
request..."
in the bottom left hand corner. Once it has displayed I can click on
a news story, then a related link, then something else, and everything
is very fast.

The issue is not OS-specific: we have windows, linux and mac on our
wireless network, and the issue is with all of them.

The issue is not browser-specific: we're seeing it with chrome and
firefox. e.g. on firefox I get "Looking www.bbc.co.uk" for 6-7
seconds then "Read www.bbc.co.uk" for 5 or so seconds, then it
all appears, and then wham wham wham all very quick.

The issue is probably not "a physical piece of wire" specific,
or "an electric problem with your router"-specific. The problem
started when we swiched providers from Tiscali to Talk-Talk a few weeks
ago.

The issue (surprisingly) does not _appear_ to be DNS-specific
either :-/ Well, maybe it is. How do I check? I have switched
the DNS on my router from talktalk to opendns 208.67.222.222
and 208.67.220.220 but the problem seems to persist---that's
how I checked. I can ping 208.67.222.222 and it responds instantly.

I'd happily try and debug this further myself but I am basically
out of ideas. Where do I go next?


You haven't got any accelerator/pre-fetch programs on board have you?

Only asking as I visited a site this week where the problem was slow thru
put, claimed it was on all machines. I eventually managed to convince them
to turn off something called On Speed and got an immediate increase x6.
Funnily enough the software was on all machines as well. So it was a QED,
thank you and good night

  #6  
Old November 27th 10, 03:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
alexd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,765
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

Meanwhile, at the uk.telecom.broadband Job Justification Hearings, Kevin
Buzzard chose the tried and tested strategy of:

The issue (surprisingly) does not _appear_ to be DNS-specific
either :-/ Well, maybe it is. How do I check?


'nslookup'. Eg:

nslookup siteyouhaventvisitedbefore.com 8.8.8.8

to query it against Google's public DNS servers.

--
http://ale.cx/ (AIM:troffasky) )
15:04:26 up 1 day, 20:24, 6 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.16
"I am utterly appalled at how I have been treated like a criminal"
-- Andrew Crossley, ACS:Law, 13 August 2010

  #7  
Old November 27th 10, 03:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Gaius
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

OP said it only happened when he moved to TalkTalk....
  #8  
Old November 27th 10, 03:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
George Weston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 467
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

On 27/11/2010 15:10, Gaius wrote:
OP said it only happened when he moved to TalkTalk....


Why doesn't that surprise me?
;-)

George
  #9  
Old November 27th 10, 03:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
DrTeeth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 11:57:52 +0000 (UTC), just as I was about to take
a herb, Kevin Buzzard disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

The problem
started when we swiched providers from Tiscali to Talk-Talk a few weeks ago.


What more is there to say?
--

Cheers,

DrT

** Stress - the condition brought about by having to
** resist the temptation to beat the living daylights
** out of someone who richly deserves it.
  #10  
Old November 27th 10, 05:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
The Natural Philosopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,728
Default "Sending request...". Deathly slow initial connection

Kevin Buzzard wrote:
I have a nice home broadband internet connection---it's quite fast,
no complaints in general. *But* I suspect something is timing out
somewhe if I point my browser at a site where I haven't
been for a while, there is a very very long pause (5 seconds or so)
before we get going. The problem is not broadband speed: once
the first page from a site loads, I can zip from page to page
essentially instantly.

Explicit example: going to www.bbc.co.uk/news: takes about 5 seconds
to display the front page, with google chrome displaying "Sending request..."
in the bottom left hand corner. Once it has displayed I can click on
a news story, then a related link, then something else, and everything
is very fast.

The issue is not OS-specific: we have windows, linux and mac on our
wireless network, and the issue is with all of them.

The issue is not browser-specific: we're seeing it with chrome and
firefox. e.g. on firefox I get "Looking www.bbc.co.uk" for 6-7
seconds then "Read www.bbc.co.uk" for 5 or so seconds, then it
all appears, and then wham wham wham all very quick.

The issue is probably not "a physical piece of wire" specific,
or "an electric problem with your router"-specific. The problem
started when we swiched providers from Tiscali to Talk-Talk a few weeks ago.

The issue (surprisingly) does not _appear_ to be DNS-specific
either :-/ Well, maybe it is. How do I check? I have switched
the DNS on my router from talktalk to opendns 208.67.222.222
and 208.67.220.220 but the problem seems to persist---that's
how I checked. I can ping 208.67.222.222 and it responds instantly.

I'd happily try and debug this further myself but I am basically
out of ideas. Where do I go next?

Kevin


Sounds like you have somewhere been using/are using a caching DNS
server with a **** poor response time.

Once YOU machine has the name entries cached, things speed up. Or oce
the caching server does, things speed up.

try emptying all history and cache from a browser and re-loading the
sites. If that's slow, then the caching of interest is in your machine.
If that's snappy, the problem is with the upstream DNS.


I got so arsed off with ISP's DNS I run my own caching server on my main
file server.

At east if that goes tits up, I can fix it.

 




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